Skyscript Astrology Forum

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Felix wrote:

I have a question why the elements in the zodiac are arranged as they
are arranged, and not otherwise......

Felix wrote:

....But are there some other (ancient) ideas and analogies which can explain this?

The answer to why the triplicities are organised in the zodiac the way they are actually predates the use of the four elements elements in astrology.

In particular many of the answers to this issue are found in Babylonian beliefs that long pre-date Greek astrology. There is direct evidence they were fundamental to the origin of the four triplicities. Much more so than the Greek philosophical ideas that has been cited above in this thread.

Of course the Greeks built upon this foundation and added many fresh ideas and insights of their own. However, it is simply a historical misnomer to ask why the elements are organized in the zodiac the way they are. While the notion of the four elements has a long pedigree in Greek philosophy it may come as a surprise to some contemporary astrologers that the elements were a comparatively late development in hellenistic astrology.

There is simply no reference to the elements linked to the astrological triplicities until Vettius Valens in the 2nd century CE. Valens is clearly aware of the four winds association with the the triplicities. For example he states of the sign of Gemini:

'it lies in the west wind'.
The Anthology, Book 1, ch2

Claudius Ptolemy also discusses the link between the triplicities and four winds. For example in the Tetrabiblos he states:

"the angles are the four cardinal points of the horizon whence are derived the general names of the winds."

This and various other references in hellenistic astrology demonstrates that the organization of the signs into triplicities was originally based on the four winds or directions. This is much more ancient than the assigning elements to each triplicity.

The original organization of the zodiac into four astrological triplicities came from the four winds or directions in Babylonian omen astrology.
Maria J. Mateus in the Summer 2009 issue of The Geocosmic Journal. Titled ?The Geographical Astrology of Babylonia,? extensively discussed the four winds and directionality in Babylonian omen astrology. Mateus states:

?A Babylonian tablet (BM 36746) dating to sometime after 400 BC, groups the zodiacal signs with winds and lands in this manner:

Aries, Leo, Sagittarius- North Wind-Akkad
Taurus, Virgo, Capricorn- South Wind- Elam
Gemini, Libra, Aquarius- West Wind- Amurru
Cancer, Scorpio, Pisces- East Wind- Subartu

"The earliest Greek source, associating the winds with the triplicities, is in the Isagoge of Geminus (written ca. 50 CE), wherein he states that the doctrine comes from the Chaldeans. His wind arguments correspond with that of BM36746, indictating that the Hellenistic triplicity scheme is, in fact, Babylonian in origin and based upon a schematization logic that probably predates the use of the zodiac, since these associations appear in monthly groupings of older omens in the same way they appear as zodiac signs...? (p. 74)

Here is a free link to the whole excellent article: http://mariamateus.squarespace.com/portfolio/academic/

This tradition can be seen as the direct ancestor of contemporary astrological techniques such as Ptolemy?s system of astrological geography which assigns triplicities to quarters of the world and sectors within these seems to be just a refinement of an ancient Bablyonian tradition found in ancient Mesopotamian omen texts. Equally, lost property questions in horary rely on the same system of assigning directions to each triplicity.

There is also clear evidence that the idea of planetary rulers of each triplicity originated in Babylonian astrology too. In particular Babylonian astrology assigned a particular planet to each direction or wind. This also linked to the zodiacal triplicities.

These ideas are still clearly referenced to by Ptolemy in the Tetrabiblos. For example in his chapter II concerning mundane astrology Ptolemy states:

Now of the four triangular formations recognized in the zodiac, as we have shown above, the one which consists of Aries, Leo, and Sagittarius is northwestern, and is chiefly dominated by Jupiter on account of the north wind, but Mars joins in its government because of the south-west wind. That which is made up of Taurus, Virgo, and Capricorn is south-eastern, and again is governed primarily by Venus on account of the south wind, but conjointly by Saturn because of the east wind. The one consisting of Gemini, Libra, and Aquarius is north-eastern and is governed primarily by Saturn because of the east wind, and conjointly by Jupiter because of the north wind. The triangle of Cancer, Scorpio, and Pisces is south-western and is governed primarily, because of the west wind, by Mars, who is joined by Venus as co ruler on account of the south wind. Tettrabiblos , Book II, Chapter 3.

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If the elements are used for climatological explanations I'd prefer Ptolemy's views. He divided the zodiac circle in four 90? quadrants and assigned an element to each one of them:

Ptolemy wrote:Of the four seasons of the year, spring, summer, autumn, and winter, spring exceeds in moisture on account of its diffusion after the cold has passed and warmth is setting in; the summer, in heat, because of the nearness of the sun to the zenith; autumn more in dryness, because of the sucking up of the moisture during the hot season just past; and winter exceeds in cold, because the sun is farthest away from the zenith.

Tetr. I-10.

This order is in my opinion more natural in respect to the temperate zone, at least in Europe. Or as Kepler said:

Kepler wrote:Although the sun, as it moves through the twelve signs, changes the seasons on earth according to the four qualities, this does not take place in that sequence [which was created by the astrologers]...

Kenneth G. Negus: Kepler's Astrology
http://cura.free.fr/docum/15kep-en.html
-----------------------
All rights reserved ? 1987-2001 Kenneth G. Negus

Dracon wrote:

"The first triplicity, the fire trigon, is considered to be the northern triplicity because when the Moon transits these three signs it raises the wind of the north, Borea. In the Southern triplicity, we find the earth trigon that moves the wind of the south, Notus. The Western triplicity is the air trigon, with the West wind, Zephir. The Eastern triplicity is the water trigon that brings the East wind Apeliote." Valerio Simei -The Truth about the Triplicities"

I feel its important to cite the source of this quote in Valerio Simei's article. It is the astronomer Geminus who relates in section II,9 in his Introduction to the Phenomena (aka Isagoge) written around 50BCE that this system was Chaldean in origin. His list of the four winds linked to the astrological triplicities is identical to that set out in the Mesopotamian omen texts. This tradition was merged with the compatible indigenous Greek tradition of Anemoi or the four winds.

I should point out that the translation above is not that accurate. Geminus doesn't actually refer to the elements! There is a much tighter, more precise translation of the whole text in English now available by James Evans and J. Lennnart Berggren. I will put up the whole translation of the relevant section if there is any interest.

One very intriguing and significant point is that Claudius Ptolemy reverses the direction of the third and fourth triplicity found in Geminus and the Babylonian omen texts. Hence Ptolemy assigns the third triplicity (Gemini, Libra and Aquarius) to the eastern direction and the fourth triplicity (Cancer, Scorpio and Pisces) to the western direction.

The third triangle is the one drawn through Gemini, Libra, and Aquarius, composed of three masculine signs, and having no relation to Mars but rather to Saturn and Mercury because of their houses. It was assigned in turn to these, with Saturn governing during the day on account of his sect and Mercury by night. The sign of Gemini lies toward the summer tropic, Libra toward the equinox, and Aquarius toward the winter tropic. This triangle also is primarily of eastern constitution, because the sect of Jupiter has familiarity with Saturn, inasmuch as it is diurnal.

The fourth triangle, which is the one drawn through Cancer, Scorpio, and Pisces, was left to the only remaining planet, Mars, which is related to it through his house, Scorpio; and along with him, on account of the sect and the femininity of the signs, the moon by night and Venus by day are co?rulers. Cancer is near the summer circle, Scorpio lies close the time of winter one, and Pisces to the equinox. This triangle is constituted pre?minently western, because it is dominated by Mars and the moon; but by admixture it becomes south-western through the domination of Venus. Tetrabiblos Book 1, chapter 18

Another tradition of assigning the winds and directions to the triplicities is found in Paul of Alexandria:

Foreknowledge of the Winds.
It is possible to know the winds that are about to blow by the separations and applications the Moon (and) from the triplicities. For if the Moon has an application by trine or separation by trine with some star in the first triplicity Aries-Leo-Sagittarius,(the wind) will be Apeliotes, (The East Wind); in the second triplicity Taurus-Virgo-Capricorn, Notos (The South Wind), in the third triplicity Gemini-Libra-Aquarius, the wind becomes westerly; and in the fourth triplicity Cancer-Scorpio-Pisces, Boras, (The North wind) . And whether it will be stormy will be known by the nature of the Star. Introduction to Astrology by Paul of Alexandria, chapter 18

This is the directional tradition that went on to influence Arab and medieval astrology. An interesting example of Ptolemy's approach not being generally adopted in the western tradition. For example we see it in Al-Qabisi(Introduction to Astrology,Ch.I.16) and 17th century books such as William's Lilly's Christian Astrology and William Ramesey's Astrology Restored. Ironically, though Lilly and Ramesey follow many of the astrological associations of countries laid out by Ptolemy (Britain, Germany, France-Aries, Spain-Sagittarius, Italy- Leo) yet the they do not follow the same directional approach he advocates for the location of this triplicity.

To summarise the three directional traditions of the triplicities:

Aries-Leo-Sagittarius
Direction: Northern (Babylonian/Geminus), Northern (Ptolemy), Eastern (Paul of Alexandria)

Taurus-Virgo-Capricorn
Direction: Southern (Babylonian/Geminus), Southern (Ptolemy), Southern (Paul of Alexandria)
Gemini-Libra-Aquarius
Direction: Western (Babylonian/Geminus), Eastern (Ptolemy), Western (Paul of Alexandria)

Cancer-Scorpio-Pisces
Direction: Eastern (Babylonian/Geminus), Western (Ptolemy), Northern (Paul of Alexandria)

All the discussion of the elements here is either purely conjectural or anachronistic. The available sources make it clear its simply not how the earliest hellenistic astrologers would have been thinking. It is therefore instructive to try to understand how the Ancient Greeks might have looked at the four winds or directions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_compass_winds

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anemoi

Clearly, the quadriplicities or modalities is a more ancient idea in hellenistic astrology than the elements and its origins in relation to the triplicities is a very relevant subject too.

Mark

Here is a podcast by Chris Brennan where he discusses the Stoic versus Aristotlean theory of the qualities and their links to the astrological elements.

The whole programme is 78 mins. The relevant section is about 48 minutes into the show:

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/wtaradio/2 ... er-11-2011

Mark