Pollux! It is the little pinky toe on right

Oh as a visual pointer to it in the sky? Good luck. You will need a very dark sky. Murdoch's Jupiter is at 10.29 Cancer. Of course the stars have very different planetary natures with bright fiery Pollux a very martial star. Alzirr is a very dim 4th magnitude star located in the toes of the constellation of Gemini. At present (2011) its position along the ecliptic is 11.22 Cancer compared to 23.22 for Pollux.
(Source Anne Wrights website-Constellation of Words http://www.constellationsofwords.com/)

Much as I really like using fixed stars I do think they need to be used judiciously. This instance seems like scraping the bottom of the barrel to me. Excessive focus on every star in the sky ends up devaluing the really important fixed stars when they are highlighting something significant in a chart. Its no accident the ancients usually just focused on the brightest stars. The main exception were the nebulas or star clusters which were seen as points of weakness.

Mark

Date/Time: 1843.10.01 00:00:00 UTC (GMT - Delta T), JD = 2394474.500000
Sidereal Time: 00:36:18, Delta T = 5.9 seconds
Geocentric positions

Phase of Moon: 0.264 (0.000=New; 0.250=First 1/4; 0.500=Full; 0.750=Last 1/4)


After reading in Wikipedia:"The newspaper was first published as The News of the World on 1 October 1843"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_of_the_World , and after some thoughts on Neptune, I think this could be an example of the manifestation of Uranus and Neptune as 'era' planets.

Date/Time: 1843.10.01 00:00:00 UTC
Planet Longitude Latitude Right Asc. Declination
Sun 07 Lib 09'25" 0?00'00" 12:26:17 - 2?50'35"
Moon 12 Cap 10'38" 1?20'09" 18:52:26 -21?34'16"
Moon's Node 26 Sgr 51'33"R 0?00'00" 17:46:18 -23?25'20"
Apogee 02 Ari 55'25" 5?00'58" 00:02:43 5?45'51"
Mercury 00 Sco 17'45" - 3?33'00" 13:47:36 -14?54'24"
Venus 06 Lib 42'26" 1?19'41" 12:26:44 - 1?26'43"
Mars 08 Cap 40'15" - 2?44'19" 18:38:33 -25?54'30"
Jupiter 17 Aqr 57'23"R - 1?07'57" 21:23:03 -16?32'25"
Saturn 19 Cap 14'24" - 0?06'41" 19:23:23 -22?11'18"
Uranus 00 Ari 00'20"R - 0?46'36" 00:01:15 - 0?42'37"
Neptune 18 Aqr 57'49"R - 0?19'38" 21:26:00 -15?27'44"
Pluto 22 Ari 13'49"R -17?27'24" 01:48:07 - 7?33'25"
source: www.ephemeris.com

"On 7 July 2011, News International announced that the News of the World would be permanently closed that week" (Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_of_the_World )

Date/Time: 2011.07.07 00:00:00 UTC
Planet Longitude Latitude Right Asc. Declination
Sun 14 Cnc 34'30" - 0?00'01" 07:03:17 22?38'25"
Moon 27 Vir 41'15" - 5?13'41" 11:43:11 - 3?52'39"
Moon's Node 23 Sgr 16'36"R 0?00'00" 17:30:43 -23?16'00"
Apogee 04 Ari 41'53" 5?08'25" 00:09:03 6?35'00"
Mercury 07 Leo 35'06" 1?18'13" 08:41:23 19?37'57"
Venus 03 Cnc 27'14" 0?01'19" 06:15:03 23?24'51"
Mars 11 Gem 14'18" - 0?00'59" 04:38:45 22?06'28"
Jupiter 05 Tau 52'34" - 1?11'47" 02:15:54 12?21'01"
Saturn 10 Lib 54'54" 2?28'01" 12:44:00 - 2?02'57"
Uranus 04 Ari 33'39" - 0?44'36" 00:17:55 1?07'48"
Neptune 00 Psc 38'02"R - 0?32'22" 22:11:33 -11?45'08"
Pluto 05 Cap 58'48"R 4?28'24" 18:25:12 -18?50'01"
source: www.ephemeris.com

The second Uranus return is prominent and return of the Lunar Node, perhaps indicating a revolutionary ending of an era and disappearance (node).

Much as I really like using fixed stars I do think they need to be used judiciously. This instance seems like scraping the bottom of the barrel to me.

If its good enough for Granny Skot then its good enough for me, Mark.

Your entitled to your view Daz as indeed am I. As I suggested there is little support throughout astrological history for giving much significance to such low magnitude stars. Certainly not on their own without the support of other significators in a chart.The big exception is star clusters/ nebula.

Bernadette Brady makes the same point about stellar magnitude in her book on fixed stars. I understand John Frawley (who is authoring a book on fixed stars) also adopts a similar perspective. However, this attitude is very ancient. It clearly originates back to when astrology had a more visual basis. Its also a pragmatic consideration to prevent a delineation being overwhelmed by minor fixed stars.

With excellent eyesight, on a clear, moonless night in a place far away from city lights, you should be able to see about 1000-2000 stars. The darker the skies, the more stars you can see. Astronomers have calculated that there are about 6,000 stars potentially visible with the unaided eye, of course, there?s no way you could see them all at the same time. Some stars are visible from the southern hemisphere, while others are visible from the northern hemisphere. Some stars are visible in the summer months, while others are visible in the winter. Some are too near the haze of the horizon to be clearly visible. Still, the implications of including all the lower magnitude stars in our delineations is obvious. The ancient astrologers knew what they were doing.

Mark

from Astrodienst.

http://forum.astro.com/cgi/forum.cgi?num=1310092514

#Mar enters a more volatile degree at 20.00#Gem at 4.30pm..something interesting could happen around this period if emotions run high.

4.53 pm - Meeting disrupted by protester!



greg

Mar enters a more volatile degree at 20.00#Gem at 4.30pm..something interesting could happen around this period if emotions run high.

4.53 pm - Meeting disrupted by protester!

The potential for something dramatic was certainly always there with Mars in its own bound/term in Gemini and conjunct the south node in the 7th house sign division or in the 8th by whole sign. Both the SN and Mars are also conjunct the fixed star Bellatrix of the nature of Mars and Mercury. The actual incident seems to have been sparked in the very last degree of Scorpio rising (29.55) which again highlights Mars.

This incident undoubtably helped Rupert Murdoch by deflecting public attention away from some of his rather lacklustre testimony. I dont discount the significance of Mars changing degree. Looking at 20 Gemini though I prefer the classical monomoiria or planetary degree rulerships. This degree moves Mars into the monomoiria of Venus. Venus is in the 8th house but in a close trine to the Moon and conjunct the Lot of Fortune. It serves to highlight how Murdoch benefited via the assault from this random prankster. Its also brought Murdoch's wife quite bizarrely into the limelight after she laid a punch on the prankster. This fits the 'Amazon warrior' reputation of the fixed star Bellatrix perfectly!

Mark

Anything involving the little pinky toe on the right would definately have gone wee-wee-wee all the way home...

The potential for something dramatic was certainly always there with Mars in its own bound/term in Gemini and conjunct the south node in the 7th house sign division or in the 8th by whole sign. Both the SN and Mars are also conjunct the fixed star Bellatrix of the nature of Mars and Mercury. The actual incident seems to have been sparked in the very last degree of Scorpio rising (29.55) which again highlights Mars.

Thanks, Mark.

I'm not a traditional astrologer but I have it that Mars is in Face rather than term.

Just out of curiousity, why does Mars have to be dignified anyway, Mars doesnt seem to have acted in a dignified manner. I would have thought a debilitated Mars badly aspected (by Moon in this case) would be more fitting.
And again Bellatrix conj Mars is given a positive reading by V.Robson although I can see there are some tenuous connections with the star generally if looking at the thwarting of the attack.

Think I'll stick with the sabian reading of 'an act of ill-will and bluster'..whenever I've used trad.techniques it more often ends up in slightly too much obfuscation and vagueness for my personal liking.

Does anyone here have Murdock's birth data? Thanks.

Thanks!

Daz Madrigal wrote:

I'm not a traditional astrologer but I have it that Mars is in Face rather than term.

Mars has left its face (decan) as we are discuusing 20 Gemini in the modern sense of degrees ie 0-29. So its in the face of the Sun. However, is in its own term/bound according to the Egyptian system. This was the main system of bounds used in hellenistic and Arabic astrology and continued in use up to the end of the traditional era. The main alternative is Ptolemy's system bounds. I like many traditionalists prefer the Egyptian system of terms.

Just out of curiousity, why does Mars have to be dignified anyway, Mars doesnt seem to have acted in a dignified manner. I would have thought a debilitated Mars badly aspected (by Moon in this case) would be more fitting.

Thats a fair point. Although Mars always remains a planet with malefic potential. More especially in a day chart where its hot and dry nature is exacerbated. The South Node also has a link to Mars in its meaning.

And again Bellatrix conj Mars is given a positive reading by V.Robson although I can see there are some tenuous connections with the star generally if looking at the thwarting of the attack.

I tend to go along with Robert Hand in relying more on planetary natures of planets than the sometimes questionable interpretations in Robson. Bellatrix has a long connection to martial matters. It carries associations like the other stars in Orion which were linked from ancient times with stormy and unpredicable weather. As a Mars-Mercury star the martial nature of the star is quite clearly accentuated by the close proximity of the planet Mars. The proximity of the SN does not assist a postive interpretation of the stars influence here.

Think I'll stick with the sabian reading of 'an act of ill-will and bluster'..whenever I've used trad.techniques it more often ends up in slightly too much obfuscation and vagueness for my personal liking.

I think that is the first time i have ever heard the Sabian symbols praised for their clarity vs the 'obfuscation and vagueness' of traditional astrology. I think the problem you might have experienced is that you cant just pick up the odd technique from the tradition. It requires a systematic approach. Personally, I think 'obfuscation and vagueness' is a perfect definition of the Sabian symbols much of the time which often resemble the astrological equivalent of the ink blot test to me. People can find whatever interpretation they like.

Incidentally, where are you geting your Sabian symbol descriptions from?
I dont recognise them relating to the original wording much?

http://www.cafeastrology.com/sabiansymb ... nings.html

Mark