13 by Tom I've also read that main luminaries dispositor in chart (diurnal or nocturnal) tells a lot about general well-being, financial and social standing. I tend to be leery of these kinds of aphorisms. Most aphorisms might be understood with the codicil, "all other things being equal," since all other things are rarely equal, the aphorisms should be carefully examined before applying them. In this case Mercury disposits the light of sect. Mercury is powerful in Gemini and in the ASC. But Gemini is a barren sign. Now Gould was never an overly popular man. His social standing was strong but he was not well liked. So while this aphorism can apparently be applied to his social standing, I'd be reluctant to assign it to his financial standing. Quote Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:10 pm
14 by Yuriy Tom wrote: I tend to be leery of these kinds of aphorisms. Most aphorisms might be understood with the codicil, "all other things being equal," since all other things are rarely equal, the aphorisms should be carefully examined before applying them. In this case Mercury disposits the light of sect. Mercury is powerful in Gemini and in the ASC. But Gemini is a barren sign. Now Gould was never an overly popular man. His social standing was strong but he was not well liked. So while this aphorism can apparently be applied to his social standing, I'd be reluctant to assign it to his financial standing. I can't bring citations, I was through some intense training (kind of like your mystery charts but more) and remember from there that general significators of native's social standing and general wellbeing (at least assuming good or bad financial situation) are: - main luminary dispositor - MC ruler or almuten - second triplicity ruler of sign at MC The last one came from Esra: first ruler of MC sign triplicity tells about mother, second about highest professional rank possible, third about kind of profession itself Quote Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:34 pm
15 by Tzadde Fertility and barrenness were never used to refer to money or social standing, neither to popularity. This dichotomy referred only to the ability to procreate... to have children, that is. I give equal weight to all Five Pillars, and the ruler of 2nd falls on second place after these, along with 10th and 11th Houses. In this case, I found interesting the fact that the Part of Basis is in the Place of Acquisition, which makes Mercury a very important planet, and - as already pointed out - as the holder of Sun, the conditional Light, he is even more important. Mercury is related to papers, coins and all the things related to these, and also - obviously - to intelligence. Notice that Moon is ruler of 2nd and is in mutual reception with Venus, ruler of Exaltation... Amor ordinem nescit. Love does not know order. - Saint Jerome - Quote Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:36 pm
16 by Tom Fertility and barrenness were never used to refer to money or social standing, neither to popularity. This dichotomy referred only to the ability to procreate... to have children, that is. While I'm sure fertility and barrenness were mostly used to determine the number of children, if any, I don't see why that should be limited to just this. We're dealing with a concept, not a rock hard rule. Fertility and/or its lack is a concept that is not limited to childbearing, so I don't see why it can't be applied to other areas. Quote Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:46 pm
18 by Yuriy J. Paul Getty I this article http://www.skyscript.co.uk/wealthgetty.html But nothing above said could be applied to his chart. Well, dispositor of Fortuna Mars in trine to Fortuna, in reception with Jupiter in 2nd, but all weak planets themselves. Last edited by Yuriy on Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:18 am, edited 1 time in total. Quote Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:22 pm
19 by Mark Yuriy wrote: J. Paul Getty I this article http://www.skyscript.co.uk/wealthgetty.html But nothing above said could be applied to his chart. Well, dispositor of Fortuna Mars in trine to Fortuna, in reception with Jupiter in 2nd, but all week planets themselves. I put the link to this article up already mostly for the delineation notes. However, see the data notes at the bottom of the article which show the birth time is by no means definite. This may explain your difficulties with the chart. 5.43 AM LMT (14.56 GMT), 15 Dec. 1892, Lat. 44N59, Long. 93W16.There are doubts as to Getty's exact birth time. Lois Rodden in The American Book of Charts (p.305) quotes 10.43 AM LMT and 8.30 am CST as possible alternatives. The given chart seems the most likely, but should be regarded as an illustration of a method of judgement rather than a definitive nativity. I have a lot of AA data for Scottish millionaires which I can post up if people want to take this more into delineation. Mark As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly Quote Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:40 pm
20 by StellarTiggy I have a lot of AA data for Scottish millionaires which I can post up if people want to take this more into delineation. Let's do it. Quote Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:49 pm
21 by Mark Tom wrote: I've also read that main luminaries dispositor in chart (diurnal or nocturnal) tells a lot about general well-being, financial and social standing. Our main ancient sources on this are Antiochus of Athens and Porphyry. Basically, the first step was to look at the sect light. However, if it was in a cadent house (by Whole sign) you excluded it and went to the other luminary. If both were cadent you go to the ASC. They called the appropriate luminary of sect (or if none the ASC) the predominator. They called the dispositor of the predominator the oikodespotes (domicile Master). The domicile ruler of the predominator's sign is the domicile master (oikodespotes) of the chart (the planet that claims the whole chart as his dwelling place). The domicile master is the one who sets the agenda/policy in native?s life. The bound (term) ruler of the predominator is the oversight i.e. the one who sets the restriction over the domicile master (oikodespotes) of the chart. The next planet that is equally important in the overall rulership of a nativity (besides Oikodespotes or domicile master of the chart) is called Kurios [Lord of the nativity]. Kurios is the executor of the agenda that Oikodespotes (domicile master) holds. I tend to be leery of these kinds of aphorisms. Most aphorisms might be understood with the codicil, "all other things being equal," since all other things are rarely equal, the aphorisms should be carefully examined before applying them. Agreed. I am still testing out some of these hellenistic natal ideas myself. However, its worth keeping in mind that much of the corpus of traditional astrology is composed of such aphorisms. Mark As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly Quote Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:47 pm
22 by Tom ... its worth keeping in mind that much of the corpus of traditional astrology is composed of such aphorisms. Absolutely. My only point is these are aphorisms and not hard and fast laws. An awful lot can be learned by reading aphorisms alone. Take them apart and try to determine why the author is saying what he is saying. It's a great exercise. Quote Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:17 pm
23 by Tom Here is the chart of everyone's favorite rich guy: Donald Trump. The Donald did start out in life with a small advantage: his father spotted him about $20 million to get started. Note Jupiter, ruler of the 5th (father's wealth) in a partile sextile to the ASC. But Donald improved on that. Quote Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:35 pm
24 by StellarTiggy Tom wrote:Here is the chart of everyone's favorite rich guy: Donald Trump. The Donald did start out in life with a small advantage: his father spotted him about $20 million to get started. Note Jupiter, ruler of the 5th (father's wealth) in a partile sextile to the ASC. But Donald improved on that. The only notable position I see is lord of the 10th from Fortune (Mars) is in the 1st. I am not sure where Trump's Spirit, Exaltation, or Basis are but I think they must be conjunct the 7th house because he's a full moon birth, although Exaltation is probably somewhere else. His Acquisition isn't particularly significant here although he has some placements there like the Moon, and Jupiter isn't that special in his chart. I can see the Venus-Saturn in Cancer in Trump "you're fired" Quote Sun Sep 16, 2012 1:36 am