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16 by Geoffrey
Well, I must apologise. It seems that I was confused by the high tide website I consulted which appeared to indicate that the times were in EST, not in EDT which was in force at the time. On looking around at other high tide websites for New London, they appear to agree (where they do agree!) that high tide was at 19.06 EDT on 25th October 2012. So, on that basis my chart is an hour out.

However, that is academic in the sense that that the Bounty would appear to have left New London sometime around 22:00hrs zulu, or 18:00 hrs EDT local time. The list of waypoints I have obtained are hourly updates of the Bounty's position timed for around half past the hour, and the times are given in UTC, so no confusion about daylight savings times. The position for 16:28 EDT is the same as that for 17:33 EDT, which is the Port of New London.

So Johannes, after 728 posts on this forum, isn't it time you broke your cherry and posted a chart? If mere mortals like me can figure out the intricacies then I am sure someone like you, with brain the size of a planet, can manage it....

Geoffrey

17 by james_m
geoffrey,

i want to thank you once again for sharing this chart and offering a brilliant analysis on it as i saw it when you posted it here a week or so ago... at the time i wondered about the accuracy of the time, but felt it took next to nothing away from the insights and work you had shared..

i hope you continue to post charts and share your insights with us while letting those who are either unable or incapable of doing the same, drop from your attention. thanks again for sharing your wisdom!

18 by Mark
I just want to echo other comments here that Geoffrey's piece was exceptionally well written. Its a pity about the timing issue as otherwise this was the closest I have seen to a post worthy of making an article here for years. The original post is still very worthwhile in demonstrating traditional delineation. Still, it is important to get our data correct even when the task is very complicated like this one.

I would ask though that when people have such feedback on timing they do so as diplomatically as possible. I have been in Geoffrey's position myself in the past and its really very deflating and demoralising. Its a lot harder to create a post like this than critique it.

Can I just add another note on posting charts. Its dead easy guys believe me! I am generally a total technophobe but even I can do it. If anyone is struggling on this please send me a PM and I will try and help out.

Mark
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

19 by johannes susato
Geoffrey wrote: [...]isn't it time you broke your cherry and posted a chart?
May I refer you to the chart lihin was so kind to post (p. 1 of this thread)?

And, please, stay a little less offending, Geoffrey. :D

Johannes

20 by johannes susato
Mark wrote:Can I just add another note on posting charts. Its dead easy guys believe me! I am generally a total technophobe but even I can do it. If anyone is struggling on this please send me a PM and I will try and help out.

Hello Mark,

thank you very much for you offer! I will address you the next time, I should shipwreck trying to post a chart here.

I fully agree with you that we should be with
Mark wrote:feedback on timing [...] as diplomatically as possible.
Otherwise, the most diplomatic way would certainly be to omit errors, but would you not agree that this cannot be the right way in astrology?

I hope anyway to have been sufficiently diplomatic as yet in this event of Bounty's last sailing. Otherwise plesae let me know, because this is not, and has not been, my intent in the least.

Johannes

21 by Geoffrey
johannes susato wrote: And, please, stay a little less offending, Geoffrey. :D
I apologise if I have offended. That was not my intent, which was to encourage only....

The chart which lithin kindly put up was not set for the correct time at which the Bounty weighed anchor. It is an hour too early.

I should thank you too for the link to an online version of Jubar Astrologicum as there is a host of other good books there to be had at that site - including Nauticum Astrologicum by John Gadbury which I had not known of. This is a whole book (well, half a book) given over to the astrology of ships and matters connected with ships. (The other half of the book is given over to 20 years worth of weather reports for London!)

In the book, Gadbury places greatest store on the nativity of the ship, cast for the moment is was launched, rather than charts for the start of the voyage. To this end, I am trying to track down the time at which Bounty was launched on 27th August, 1960, in Luneburg, Nova Scotia. I will report back if I get a time.

Geoffrey

24 by Mark
Johannes Susato wrote:
Otherwise, the most diplomatic way would certainly be to omit errors, but would you not agree that this cannot be the right way in astrology?
I wasn't suggesting that Johannes. As astrologers we must always treasure the correct data. Endeavouring to establish that is always worthwhile and commendable. My point was simply that a detailed delineation such as Geoffrey's gave us takes a lot of hard work. Often hours of time are taken up.

So I was simply reminding everyone here of that. Its emotionally quite difficult to have your research and the delineation derived from it literally 'shot down in flames'. I was therefore just suggesting all members exercise a degree of sensitivity when these kind of situations come up here on the forum.

Thanks

Mark
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly
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