Skyscript Astrology Forum

christopher wrote:Hi EPurdue,

It's great to hear that you are working on a new translation! I'd be certainly interested in acquiring a copy once it's in print. And I didn't know that there was a private edition too.

After analysing those passages, I came to the conclusion that my previous approach was wrong. Rather than taking an almuten for each of the corners and then using them in order, it seems that we need to sum up the dignities for all planets for all corners. That would make this technique similar to hyleg. Am I reading this right?


Thanks again,
Christopher

Well you don't find the hyleg that way. This is a little more like a compound almuten where you find the almuten over several points.

They way I read this is:

" the ascendant of anyone?s nativity and weighing the other angles of heaven, then which planets in those four angles has more dignities (which the Arabs call almutez)"

Here you add up the dignities of all four angles. This requires making a table, so you will be making dignity scores for all seven planets.

" be first noted among the rest and according to that second place which is next to it in the number of dignities, and thus the remaining by that order, which hold any dignity in the preceding angles"

Then you take the planets in order of dignity scores according to that table. So your results might be something like Mars, Jupiter, Mercury, Moon, Venus, Sun.

"with this order used, you will know the true place and degree of them in heaven and beginning from the degree of the ascendant and place the 22 Hebrew letters on each degree according to the order of signs"

Then on your birth chart, place the Hebrew alphabet starting at your rising degree, and move around the chart.

Note the letters for the degrees the planets fall on in the order mentioned above.

"...against the succession of signs and the letters which fall in the nadir, that is, the opposite point, the aforesaid stars are joined in order as we have said, constitute the name of the evil genius."

To find the name of the evil genius, do the exact same thing as above, but instead start the Hebrew alphabet on the cusp of the 7th house.

Hope that makes more sense.

Hi EPurdue,

Yes, that's exactly how I read it. And you're right - a compound almuten is a much better comparison that a hyleg, I was talking out of my hat.

Thanks again,
Christopher

Just to take things a little bit further - in the fourth book there is a technique of populating the name with vowels described. The vowels are written down in the same manner as the letters in the technique above on the chart starting from ascendant. The degree that indicates the vowel is calculated by taking the degrees of the planets (in the order computed in the previous technique) and deducting them from the degree of the 11th house (for the good spirits).

Seems easy enough, but there is a technical problem - what vowels and in what order are we suppose to use them? I saw an attempt to tackle this problem by using the English vowels a-e-i-o-u. However, it makes little sense to use English vowels with Hebrew letters. Alternatively, one could use the 'natural vowels' described by Abraham Abulafia ('a' for Aleph, 'e' for Beth, etc) and place them on the chart.
I'm pretty sure that Agrippa doesn't make any further remarks on this subject, unless I missed something? Perhaps someone has better suggestions?

Here is an interesting article by Christopher Warnock that discusses this thread topic:

http://renaissance-astrology.blogspot.c ... rdian.html

For a more general overview of delineating the Daemon/Guardian Angel in the chart Robert Zoller has written this interesting article:

http://www.astroclassic.org/text-trad/G ... ngel-2.pdf

I understand this is an abridgement of a larger unit in Robert Zoller's Diploma course. I thought his discussion of the ideas of Marsilio Ficino was especially interesting.

Mark

This article also seems very thorough and comprehensible:

www.jwmt.org/v3n21/natal.html

Iris

zollers article was written in 2002.. angela voss book 'marsilio ficino came out in 2006.. i am reading it right now.. the book has a lot of interesting discussion on the idea of the daemon and some of it is astrological in nature. page 165/166 in her book might be worth quoting, so i will do so here.

"For those who want to find out what sort of daemon attended every individual from his very begetting, Porphyry searches for a rule from the planet that is lord of the geniture. Now the lord of the geniture, Julius Firmicus affirms, is either that planet who has the greater number of dignities at the time or else, on the basis of a sounder opinion, the one whose house the Moon will enter just after leaving the sign which she occupies when the man is born. But one's daemon, Julius Firmicus thinks, cannot be sought out from that same rule, but rather, according to the Chaldaean opinion, from the Sun or Moon. From the Sun to the Moon in a daytime nativity, conversely from the Moon to the Sun in a night time nativity: when you have computed the interval between these, you measure out an equal space descending from the degree of the Ascendant and you note in what term you stop. To whichever star that term belongs, they think your daemon belongs to it too. But in short, from the lord of the nativity together with the daemon, they usually assess your course of life and your fortune. I added 'fortune' because some compute your Part of Fortune by nearly the same system."

James_M wrote:

zollers article was written in 2002.. angela voss book 'marsilio ficino came out in 2006.. i am reading it right now.. the book has a lot of interesting discussion on the idea of the daemon and some of it is astrological in nature

I have heard Angela Voss speak on this subject but never bought her book. It does sound interesting. From my recollection Ficino's renaissance Neo-Platonism had to be more circumspect on the pagan ideas of Plotinus and Porphyry due to concerns of offending Catholic theology.

Apart from being a noted Neo-Platonist philosopher and astrologer Porphyry had been been the author of probably the most systematic critique of Christianity in the Roman world. Porphyry's book 'Against The Christians' was seen as such an intellectual threat to the fledgling Christian community that Emperor Constantine ordered all copies of the work to be destroyed. Only fragments of the book exist today in works penned by his Christian critics.

Getting back to Ficino I formed the impression that his interest in the Daemon in astrology was largely philosophical rather than technical. Hence he doesn't go into many specifics of Porphyry's system.

Mark

Hi James,

The quote from Ficino you provided seems to be closely following Firmicus Maternus:

THE RULER OF THE CHART XIX

1. You must carefully observe the ruler of the chart, whom the Greeks call oecodespotes. He himself controls the sum of the whole chart and from him the individual planets take their power of forecasting. If he is well-located-in signs in which he rejoices, or is exalted, or in his own house, and the chart is of his condition, and he is not attacked by malefic planets or lacking protection of benefic-he predicts all good things, according to the quality of his nature and the whole number of t he years of life. But if he is impeded by malefic planets or deserted by benefic, then he languishes and his efficacy is weakened.

2. 1 shall explain this with all the information from the ancient scholars so that you can find the ruler of the chart. Some have said that the ruler of the chart is the planet which is located in favorable houses of the chart, in his own house or his own terms. But others have figured from the Sun and Moon, arguing that the ruler of the chart is the one in whose terms the Sun and Moon are found, that is, the Sun in the daytime and the Moon at night. There is some point to this theory. Others say that the ruler of the chart is the ruler of the exaltation of the Moon. Still others maintain that the ruler is the one whose sign the Moon enters after she has left the one in which she is found at the birth.

3. We follow this last method and it is universally approved; but consider everything we have said carefully.

Matheoseos Libri VIII, Firmicus Maternus, Book IV , Chapter XIX translated by Jean Rhys Bram

It seems strange that Ficino doesn't quote Porphyry in more detail. I assume he had access to Porphyry's Introduction to the Tetrabiblos where he sets his system of identifying the Predominator/Oikodespotes/Kurios which assisted in the identification of the personal daemon of each nativity.

Mark

As a follow up to my mention of Dorian Greenbaum's forthcoming book on the daemon in astrology I have emailed her for an update.

Dorian is currently editing the book. Being the true scholar that she is Dorian will probably take some time on this. Realistically, she doesn't think it will appear until 2014.

The book will be printed by the academic publisher Brill.

As Brill books are targeted at academics and University libraries they can be quite expensive. Time to start saving those pennies!

Mark

hi mark,

voss's book - 'marsilio ficino' is much more of a religio-philosophical book then an astrology book.. i just happened to be reading it while this thread unfolded and thought i would toss out a quote from about where i was in the book yesterday or the day before.. perhaps ficino didn't talk about porphyry so much given the concern you mentioned, but he does mention him in the context of his work 'life of plotinus' and in a few other areas.. it really isn't an astrology book, but there is astrology in this book. he was a practicing astrologer/musician and became an ordained christian priest.. a look at his chart will explain some of the conflict that he probably experienced as a result..
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Ficino,_Marsilio

from the back cover of the book "Ficino played an important role in re-envisioning traditional astrology as humanistic and psycho-spiritual, laying the foundation for modern-day holistic practices."

that quote ought to scare off a few of the more orthodox folks, lol..

at any rate, it's a good book that some might enjoy reading. thanks for pointing to the passages from fm.. i read that book not that long ago as well and seem to recall asking for feedback here on some of the passages.. reading these old soggy books can be tricky and one wonders how much one can retain in it all.. for example, who considers the moon sign following the one at birth as having some relevance? i have never seen that ever before, other then in this context we are discussing at present. thought i would throw in a little astrology to stay focused...