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13 by Martin Gansten
james_m wrote:thanks konrad. i am intrigued by your comment you see no association with the 8th house and sexuality.. if you'd like to comment on any views you have on this further, i'd be interested. it is my own observation that there is a tie in. then again, i associate the 8th house and sign with death too - sex being like a small death of sorts..
Konrad isn't alone in this; the connection between the 8th house and sex (in the sense of sexual attraction, sexual activity or sexual pleasure) definitely didn't exist in astrology prior to the 19th century, and probably not prior to the 20th. In traditional melothesia, the 8th house and Scorpio were both connected with the genitals and anus; but coupling was considered a 7th house matter.
https://astrology.martingansten.com/

14 by Graham F
Hello Martin
Is using the 12th for "bed pleasures" strictly Indian? Or 5th for amorous encounters? I think Houck for example (but some Indians as well, I think) looks to 7 for more partner-type relationships, 5th sometimes for the recreational side of sex/flirting, and 12th for the more escapist, addictive or kinky stuff.
Graham

15 by james_m
well the chart konrad posted does have moon in the 12th, and the 5th happens to be ruled by saturn.. the ruler of the 7th is in the 8th too fwiw
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Einhorn,_Ira

i still maintain there is a strong connection with the 8th and sex, but it might have more to do with emotional factors that play into the dynamic and i don't know if anyone wants to talk about it here anyway.

i guess it was sigmund frued that made the tie in between sex and death more popular.. here is a link that discusses the connection between sex and death..
http://www.deathreference.com/Py-Se/Sex ... on-of.html

16 by Graham F
james_m wrote:I still maintain there is a strong connection with the 8th and sex
So do I actually. At least as much as death, even, though as you say, the two can be symbolically linked.
Graham

17 by Konrad
pankajdubey wrote:any particular reason why you decided to call Valens" blessed lot of marriage into lot of sexual activity.
sex outside of marriage was not unknown or looked badly upon in Valen"s time
Yet valens gave venus to wife.
Based upon me testing which lot to use when delineating marriages and relationships. I then stumbled across my views on this lot while studying the charts of peadophiles and then homosexual men as I have said in another thread.

Also, when I look to the symbolism of the planets involved, it strikes me that the Saturn/Venus lot is about committment to love or sex and bonding within parameters set by society or to do one's duty in continuing their line via reproduction. The other lot seems to be more about the masculine light with feminine sexuality and the converse for the female lot.

I'm quite prepared for this to be completely off-base but I don't think you can delineate someone's sexual deviance or "purity" from Venus/Mars or Venus/Saturn combinations alone. I wouldn't take the 7th house in isolation to signify anything either, so I was looking for something else to either solidfy these significations or contradict them. I also don't think the Lot of Marriage Contract is suited to show sexual behaviour for the reasons I mentioned above. As I said, I am completely ready for this to fail but I felt it worth sharing.
http://www.esmaraldaastrology.wordpress.com

Bollixed

20 by lihin
Good morning,

This thread, apparently a potpourri of systems, leaves me baffled, nay bollixed.

How is the specific lot (Hellenistic and / or Mediaeval) defined, please? Is the calculation the same for diurnal and nocturnal events?

Which topical place(s) indicate(s) sexual behaviour? Is 'the more, the merrier' from Indian, Hellenistic, Mediaeval and modern astrologies an optimal approach?

If one chooses to combine zodiacs, interpretations and techniques from, say, Indian and Mediaeval astrologies, according to what principles and rules, please?

Best regards,

lihin
Non esse nihil non est.

21 by Konrad
pankajdubey wrote:it seems Rob Hand has discussed this before.
http://www.accessnewage.com/articles/astro/robhand5.htm

PD
Ah thanks. Very nice. I'm pleased that Al-Biruni rpeorts this lot to be something similar to what I am finding as well as Robert Hand.
pankajdubey wrote:The l ot"s ruler will change from tropical to sidereal.So does this apply to sidereal or tropical methods.

And you save the Saturn from a lot of blushes.
I use a Sidereal ayanamsa, so it isn't really my concern what it looks like in the Tropical zodiac. I haven't tested it out there.

I'm not understanding your Saturn comment, can you explain it?
http://www.esmaraldaastrology.wordpress.com

Re: Bollixed

22 by Konrad
lihin wrote:Good morning,

This thread, apparently a potpourri of systems, leaves me baffled, nay bollixed.

How is the specific lot (Hellenistic and / or Mediaeval) defined, please? Is the calculation the same for diurnal and nocturnal events?

Which topical place(s) indicate(s) sexual behaviour? Is 'the more, the merrier' from Indian, Hellenistic, Mediaeval and modern astrologies an optimal approach?

If one chooses to combine zodiacs, interpretations and techniques from, say, Indian and Mediaeval astrologies, according to what principles and rules, please?

Best regards,

lihin
I'm glad I have bollixed such a brain as yourself, Lihin. :)

The lot is found in Valens' section of marriage (as I have already stated). It is different for males and females (male = Sun to Venus from ASC, female = Moon to Mars from ASC) and doesn't reverse at night. As for the claimed combination of methods, the ancients are constantly imploring us to apply the principles they set out with our own intelligence and, I presume, according to our own experience, I don't think they wanted us to follow them verbatim as that shows a lack of understanding of these principles and the finer points they were trying to convey. I want to understand not only what they said, but why and apply it in different contexts. I understand that you may just want a system to follow, my posts probably aren't for you then.

Saying that though, I am struggling to see the "potpourri" you do. If you don't like the sidereal zodiac being used, then this is the wrong place for you. For the rest, I am using rulerships, the concept of overcoming, the 7th house and a Lot related to it. It sounds like pretty basic stuff to me.
http://www.esmaraldaastrology.wordpress.com

24 by pankajdubey
Graham F wrote:We're being driven out of the "traditional" forum and now getting criticised here for baffling tropicalists. This is getting ridiculous.
Historically, same thing happened to Scots moving westward in USA :lala
So move east and become a hellenistic astrologer of around 100-300AD
when the precession was close to zero.

@Konrad.

Normally, saturn gets all the blame for all thins bad.
You are his saviour.
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