Skyscript Astrology Forum

zoidsoft wrote:The best way to make sure there are no errors is to test the algorithms and include debug info with the application. However I would say many errors come about from those not well schooled in primary directions trying to get a certain result with incorrect options. For this reason, PD's just are not for beginners. Study and practice is essential if you hope to know what you are looking at.

Good point here, Curtis!
Unfortunatelly, I'm trying to compare my calculations with pyMorinus, which many people seems to be using, and I can't get the correct results with it. And, as far as I know, Martin Gansten "worked" with pyMorinus' developer, so, I think it is not the case of lack of practice. Martin Gansten even suggests pyMorinus in his book "Primary Directions".

My calculations are correct, though, hand checked and also by comparing with Primaries.jsp, a jsp service on the web. So something must have changed in pyMorinus, or it's me who can not configure it correctly..

On the parallel discussion about the iterative method, it sounds "interesting" but I'm only implementing the "traditional" semi-arc approach for now..

As for calculations speed, I can compute and draw an entire PD table [0..100arc(~years)], including all major aspects of promissors, and promissors as terms, in less than 1s. And I'm doing this in an interpreted language, where speed is about 1/100 of a native compilation.
I guess it depends a lot of how you have your code structured and simplified. For instance, as you may read in my post, if instead of computing the semiarc using Gansten's formulas, you use "90+AD", you'll save a lot of clock cycles there..


Jo?o Ventura

jventura wrote:Unfortunatelly, I'm trying to compare my calculations with pyMorinus, which many people seems to be using, and I can't get the correct results with it. And, as far as I know, Martin Gansten "worked" with pyMorinus' developer, so, I think it is not the case of lack of practice. Martin Gansten even suggests pyMorinus in his book "Primary Directions".

I graduated from Martin's course back in early February. If the problem is with converse directions, keep in mind that there is a difference between traditional converse and modern converse. Morinus is doing modern converse (against the diurnal rotation - even in the "traditional" version) which Martin explains in lesson 12. All traditional converse directions still go in the primary motion (never backwards), but instead it is the significator that is moved in the diurnal motion to the promissor. Therefore the proportions of the DSA and NSA change to give a different proportional point because it is being measured in the other arc and differences will show unless they happen to have the same latitude.

zoidsoft wrote:I graduated from Martin's course back in early February. If the problem is with converse directions, keep in mind that there is a difference between traditional converse and modern converse. Morinus is doing modern converse (against the diurnal rotation - even in the "traditional" version) which Martin explains in lesson 12.

The "problem" of pyMorinus is not with converse directions (I don't use them in skyPlux), but with "direct" directions, specifically with planet-to-planet using the semi-arc method. I've tried to look at the source-code to see if I could find a problem, but I could not understand it (the source code is really poorly written)..

But as I said, probably its me that can't find the correct settings, although I use Primary Directions alot in my interpretations.

Well, I suggest you take Martin's course. It will eventually clear up any issues you have now.

zoidsoft wrote:Well, I suggest you take Martin's course. It will eventually clear up any issues you have now.

I think it is more a problem with pyMorinus software (or my usage of it) than a problem with my interpretation of Primary Directions or its formulas..

But thanks for the suggestion, anyway, I might someday take his course!

Hello Curtis and Joao,

I am a user and not a programmer, but I do have a question regarding Delphic Oracle and Morinus.
Curtis, I have purchased Delphic Oracle from you and have been enjoying it a lot, thank you. I do not know whether you are done with the primaries in Delphic Oracle but wanted you to know that there is a significant difference in the directing through the bounds of the MC (I will disregard the Lights and Fortune as they involve interplanetary and I do not know how to calculate them so can't be certain) between Delphic Oracle and Morinus. The calculations for the distributions of the Asc come out the same though.
I also have Rumen Kolev's program, at least the distributions module, and the calculations in Morinus for the distributions of the MC coincide with Kolev's within 3-5 days, while those in Delphic Oracle differ in years.
Have you noticed this discrepancy?

Zagata wrote: I also have Rumen Kolev's program, at least the distributions module, and the calculations in Morinus for the distributions of the MC coincide with Kolev's within 3-5 days, while those in Delphic Oracle differ in years.
Have you noticed this discrepancy?

The directions through the bounds are probably the simplest of all, just a matter of subtraction of the two right ascensions involved. Could you give examples?

PS - drag down the splitter control near the top of the Primary Directions window so you can see the two memo fields. Then click on the direction and it will show the internal data calculated for the direction (make sure you have debug data checked in the Primary Directions Options (F5).

Also, Zagata, check which version you are running. Previous versions had problems with various directions, but I have spent significant time ironing out the differences to coincide with pyMorinus with the help of Petr Radek and Konrad. To get converse directions, to match Morinus, you will have to select Neo-Converse from the direction type combo box in Delphic Oracle.

Also the program is capable of generating a screen shot by pressing F7 once you have the display set up to show what you want (or select View | Screen Capture from the main menu). Then perhaps you can post that image here on Skyscript.

Hi Curtis,

I last updated Delphic Oracle towards the end of January this year, for the monthly revolutions.

Let's use Adolf Hitler's chart as found in Delphic Oracle with the 6.30 pm birthtime, just for the illustration.
Asc 26.41 Lib, MC 4.10 Leo. (Morinus gives Asc 26.42 Lib, MC 4.12 Leo)
I am using Ptolemy key, traditional direct, as will be shown. Also no latitude.

Here are the screenshots:

MC Distributions by Delphic Oracle:




MC Distributions by Morinus:




Delphic Oracle settings for primaries:




Delphic Oracle MC primaries:





A 1 screenshot comparison between Morinus (on the left) and Delphic Oracle for the MC distributions:





P.S. I could not understand how to show the calculations in Delphic Oracle. These screenshots are the best I can do.

Thanks.

First of all. The time lord window that shows Circumambulation through the bounds uses only Oblique Ascensions. Schmidt gave this to me to program in 2005 because it was used by Dorotheus. Ptolemy objected to this due to the fact that it is not astronomically correct motion, but it is there for posterity because some astrologers did this. Oblique ascension should be used for directions of the ascendant through the bounds or for planets that happen to be upon the ascendant if you want to be in agreement with Ptolemy.

Now for the Primary Directions window:
The small discrepancy between the values in Morinus and Delphic Oracle appear to be the result of ascendant and midheaven being slightly different. Update your version of Delphic Oracle to 6.4.2.5. I get an ascendant of 26 LI 41 (the image above is version 7 preview and the chart truncates minutes instead of rounding at the moment), which comes from the Swiss Ephemeris. This agrees with the Hitler chart on astro.com.

Hi Curtis,

Thank you for the explanations. I understand now. So when directing through the confines/bounds to use not the time lords section, except for the Asc (if one wants to), but the primary directions one which has the correct calculations.



Here is a screenshot for the MC distributions from the primary directions section from the Delphic Oracle version I last updated in late January 2013:




It checks out exactly indeed.


I saw a square wheel in Delphic Oracle and could not resist asking as I have so much wanted this . if I may, when will version 7 be available that offers the square wheel?