13 by Ariondys Ariondys wrote:...the nearest easiest guess would be for me to assume you might be able to have your Sun as the direct midpoint of Uranus/Ascendant in order to capture some of that sentiment towards authority. If that guess fits, then maybe Jup=Mer/MC fits as well (in this case the = would refer to a 90 degree aspect) shannontyler89 wrote:You were 5 minutes off, tsk. Asc/Ura is 23 58' PIS. Sun is 24 03'. Mer/MC actually trines Jupiter. It's 28 58' AQU -- 01 34' orb? My math might be off on that. With the birth coordinates being about 6 degrees difference from what I used while guessing, it wasn't possible... With another look, at the actual/factual location and time, midpoint involvement with Asc is apparent: ----Moo=Asc/Nep ----Mer=Asc/Jup * --Asc=Sun/Jup --Asc=Mer/Ven =Sun=Asc/Ura =Asc/MC=Mar=Nod/Jup +Ven=Asc/Sun +++Asc=Moo/Jup +++Asc/MC=Nod/Mar +++++MC=Jup/Plu it's a little hard to sort them precisly, as they adjust at different rates depending on what side of the formula the Asc is, but something like above. * kind of like the fictional 2nd guess I refered to Mer=Asc/Jup | successful communications, mercury=good deeds from others, optimistic dialogue these Moo=Ven/Ura Moo/Sat=Ura Nod=Mer/Jup=Sun/Plu since you refer: when rulers oppress your Asc=Hades/Kronos =AS=HA/KR | others are crooks on a great scale, bad authorities, debased elitism As Hades and Kronos transit in Cancer so slowly, there is long thread of this mode of authority in the foreseeable, but Vulkanus will leave Cancer in a few years and some of "the force" will leave the hands of the executive.
14 by OculusTauri shannontyler89 wrote:You're leaving astrology and entering psychology at this point. There's no basis to any of those statements, not to mention their gendered nature. If not having a father leads to deterioration, America is doomed, as extranuptial birth rates continue to skyrocket. Luckily, you're entirely off-base here. Yes, I'm entering psychology, but it is backed up by astrology. The last aspect of VOC Moon is the separative square to the Sun still in orbs, hence indicating problems with the father / father-figure, which comes across in disguise of "disgust with authority". shannontyler89 wrote:This is common sense. If your birth chart didn't suggest that you're likely to meet criminal friends, there would have been no need to warn you. Besides, there's a famous quote of William Lilly telling astrologers to "mix art with discrection" (i.e. common sense). shannontyler89 wrote:I was unschooled for most of my schooling-years. Unschooled means not following standard curriculum, or parent-enforced curriculum. I spent all of those years entirely entrenched in study. I am "unemployed" right now because I attend a very, very rigorous university full-time and pull straight As. The majority of this university's students are not employed. I wish everyone had that opportunity, because it's called "full time" for a reason. I was employed at the same company for longer than the vast majority of people my age have held a single job, and I was very well respected by management, with the exception of the bad seed who was gotten rid of, for my hard work. Your prediction is wrong, I'm sorry. No problem at all with my prediction being wrong. We'll see what your studies will bring in the future. Study in itself is an achievement, but not a guarantee that you'll make something out of it. shannontyler89 wrote:Again, you're abandoning astrology for psychology. If you'd read on through the thread, you would know that my disgust lies with oppression and abuse, which is all-to-often legitimized by "authority." These are not radical ideas, and certainly you won't claim these are childish things for one to be impassioned against. Leaving my options open to become a professor, in case journalism (a field on questionable footing right now) doesn't offer enough opportunity, is not indicative of my "not knowing what I want to do with it afterwards." It's a decent career decision which has the backing of advisors, writers, and professors who I've consulted about it. "Oppression", "abuse", "authority": These are all vague terms, but nothing concrete and tangible. You can't base a whole study on phrasemongering or chasing phantoms. Where exactly do you see such things? "Disgust with authority" sounds like pubertal anarchism, nothing more. shannontyler89 wrote: Ask just about any sociologist why they chose their field, and they will answer to you: I saw injustice in the world, I wanted to investigate and get to the root of it so that I could offer solutions to finding its end. Yes, oppression and injustice should be addressed. Many people are in the business of addressing it, and I hope to join them. Don't take it personally, but at the university where I studied sociologists were regarded as prattlers. Only those would study it who didn't know what to do else. Of course, this statement has nothing to do with astrology, so don't take it for granted. As for astrology, Mercury is badly placed in your birth chart: It shows lying, deceit, propaganda etc. You can go on studying sociology (and journalism), but I don't think there will come something positive out of it. shannontyler89 wrote: You've arbitrarily decided that I am advised by hate and have "negative emotions" which need venting, and then go on to condescend? You would probably be surprised to learn that no one has ever accused me of being driven by hate, or of a childish desire for vengeance against those who reinforce oppression. It has been repeated many times by adults who knew me as a child recognized quickly that I was very compassionate, very studious, and stood up for those who I witnessed being bullied. These are qualities that I always strive to maintain, for better or worse. "Disgust" is a strongly negative word. Maybe your studies will really make you the hero of mankind. Though I'm pretty convinced, that you too would be "oppressing" people if you were an "authority". You're simply not in power. Let's overcome this childish anarchism.
Re: A battle of reception ? Mercury & Jupiter 15 by johannes susato shannontyler89 wrote:I just corrected the link if the original post, sorry about that! Thanks for the permanent chart, Shannon!
16 by johannes susato OculusTauri, in your judgement you refer, at least partly, to Lilly. As a great deal of your judgement is grounded on your claiming the Moon being void of course, I should like to ask you, why do you not follow Lilly in his teachings as to the void of course Moon? Or did you simply clip the fact that, with Lilly, CA, p. 113, the Moon is NOT void of course? She is still in separation of the Sun and now, at the same time and long before she is leaving the sign, she is altogether within the orbs of her trine with Mercury. Johannes
Re: A battle of reception ? Mercury & Jupiter 17 by pankajdubey shannontyler89 wrote:I should start by saying that I'm not looking for any type of reading?this is more a subject of fascination for me, and perhaps that's narcissistic since it's due to its presence in my chart. However, any insights into the matter would surely fascinate, since I'm only intermediate, if that. The contrast of Mercury (6PIS) in weak square with Jupiter (0GEM) has always been plainly obvious in my chart, but for some reason, an ever-heightening facet of it?mutual reception between the two planets?never stood out to me before a couple of days ago when (doing nothing related to astrology) it dawned on me epiphany-style that (1) they were receiving each other, and (2) they were both, naturally, in detriment. Somehow I knew they were each other's dispositors without grasping that significance. I'm going to attach the chart just to illustrate why I think this is perhaps the strongest "aspect" in my chart. Their reception comes into play from two stelliums (one arguable, I admit). Mercury joins Sun, Venus, and N Node (this point makes its presence known in my life on the regular?but this is the "arguable" stellium) in Pisces. Jupiter joins Moon, Asc, and Mars in Gemini. (Saturn is at home in Capricorn. The outers can be seen in the attached chart, if they're relevant to this.) So, the teams are set, and oddly the captains are in each other's courts. Another random piece of this: As the N is in Pisces, naturally the S Node is in Virgo, dispositor being Mercury ... who's in Pisces. (But this actually seems a helpful coincidence to me.) Also, Jupiter is in the 12th house. I really don't know how to interpret that or how it fits in, though. In terms of houses, you might also notice the significance this could have on Asc + MC (dispositor Saturn, though ? don't get me started on Saturn). I've been considering studying some old/classical "takes" on Mercury and Jupiter (perhaps even the mythology, which I wholly lack) to better understand how these two can be blended more harmoniously. Don't get me wrong, it's not a conflict 100% of the time, I certainly am presented with their roundabout agreement on many things, but they seem incapable of communicating with each other easily, putting me at odds with myself. Any insights I'm overlooking? Tips? Resources? Discussion, questions even? I'm hoping to delve into studying this subject over the coming months. If it was any wonder, my fascination with duality (and nonduality), it is no longer! Here's a link to the chart, that way you're only loading it if you want to: http://www.astro.com/tmpd/c2agfileXUr7g ... .21388.gif EDIT: That link doesn't work anymore, here's a permanent one -- http://postimg.org/image/wv98hj37p/ I have dug this out for you. The square takes place in signs of short ascension so it should behave like a sextile. If you measure their ascensional difference it is 56 degrees which is close to a sextile.(AD of Jup = 10 deg and AD of Merc= 66deg) So, it may not be as bad as you are suspecting it to be. A connection between 10th and 12th is = hospitals and the job as a Social worker in a hospital would not be far off the mark. If you go with the modern astrology: With neptune conj the 10th lord Saturn and both being sextiled by mercury in the 10th, 12th lord venus exalted in the 10th- this combination of thing in a good way can give you a career as a social support officer or something similar in a Psychiatric admitting facility. PD
18 by OculusTauri johannes susato, actually the Moon IS void of course according to Lilly. To quote him in CA I, p. 112: "A Planet is void of course, when he is separated from a Planet, nor does forthwith, during his being in that Sign, apply to any other". Here, the Moon is at 27 Gemini in separating square to the Sun at 24 Pisces. She will make no further Ptolemaic aspects while being in Gemini. At 7 Cancer, she will form an exact trine to Mercury at 7 Pisces - though this will be long after she would have left the sign of Gemini. So technically, the Moon is VOC. Besides, I do not rely my judgement on the Moon only. As I said, ASC ruler Mercury is placed in the 10th house of career. Both Moon and Mercury being angular and in mutable signs, there's much movement and instability in life. Hence my judgement was, that the native would be either jobless, or some kind of day-labourer who doesn't persist in one job. Mercury as significator of Manners badly placed, Lilly tells us: "Inconstant people, [...] perfidious, liars, [...] meddling with everybody and every matter, asses, dolts, prattling dotards, stammering coxcombs, good for nothing, &c." (CA III, p. 541) As I have already laid down, the native is of sanguine-phlegmatic temperament. The phlegmatic side of temperament is being emphasised by the Moon, a phlegmatic planet in the 1st house. Lilly says to this: "Phlegmatic, are very cowards, uxorious people, mutable, not capable of keeping secrets, dull fellows and sluggards in performing any business." (CA III, p. 539).
19 by johannes susato OculusTauri wrote:Besides, I do not rely my judgement on the Moon only. I never claimed that, OculusTauri. But you will not deny that (and this is, what I said) Johannes susato wrote: a great deal of your judgement is grounded on your claiming the Moon being void of course, [...]wont you? OculusTauri wrote: actually the Moon IS void of course according to Lilly. To quote him in CA I, p. 112: "A Planet is void of course, when he is separated from a Planet, nor does forthwith, during his being in that Sign, apply to any other". Here, the Moon is at 27 Gemini in separating square to the Sun at 24 Pisces. She will make no further Ptolemaic aspects while being in Gemini. At 7 Cancer, she will form an exact trine to Mercury at 7 Pisces - though this will be long after she would have left the sign of Gemini. So technically, the Moon is VOC. As you can easily see, Lilly does not speak of an perfect conjunction or aspect, but he words: "apply" = application. This definition is very clear as to the necessity of application only and not perfection as long as the planet is in the sign to avoid a planet to be void of course. This is also supported by the examples in book II of CA. There are no mistakes of Lilly in judging the Moon being (not) void of course as Olivia Barklay thought, but he makes the correct use of his defintion of void of course given in page 112. Johannes
20 by OculusTauri johannes susato wrote:I never claimed that, OculusTauri. But you will not deny that (and this is, what I said) Johannes susato wrote: a great deal of your judgement is grounded on your claiming the Moon being void of course, [...]wont you? 1/3 of my prediction that the native would be unsteady in his resolutions is based on the Moon, yes. The other 2/3 are based on Mercury and the basic temperament the of native. johannes susato wrote:As you can easily see, Lilly does not speak of an perfect conjunction or aspect, but he words: "apply" = application. This definition is very clear as to the necessity of application only and not perfection as long as the planet is in the sign to avoid a planet to be void of course. This is also supported by the examples in book II of CA. At the same time Lilly states "when he is separated from a Planet", so if he's speaking of a perfected separative aspect, the applicative aspect must be perfected in the same sign too. The emphasis is on "during his being in that Sign". So if you can find, say one or two examples where Lilly clearly states that the Moon can't be VOC, because she will perfect an aspect in the early degrees of her next sign, preferably in a nativity, I'd have to admit differing from Lilly in this point. It wouldn't be such a big problem for me, though.
21 by Ariondys OculusTauri wrote:"Disgust with authority" sounds like pubertal anarchism, nothing more."loathing with authority", 1st choice of synonyms, 2nd disgust It sounds like something to me. Disgust=Hades, Authority=Kronos qualities of the native's Asc are like an open book in the space of one thread. SU=AS/UR --guessed successfully AS=HA/KR --captured in dialogue and in the context of the title a mercury-jupiter connection: ME=AS/JU As for astrology, Mercury is badly placed in your birth chart: It shows lying, deceit, propaganda etc. ... I get feedback telling me I'm off when describing mercury in Pisces to a Pisces. Even without the vibrant language(lying, deceit). If I say they are mumbling(lack of clarity, wanting to remain hidden) or having dreamy thoughts. It may be Mercury in Pisces takes exception to deterministic cataloguing of astrology. And will be happy to escape the probing or cataloguing of someone's else's Mercury. The more exacting we can be about Piscean qualities, such as elusiveness. Well, maybe we are missing the defendant of Pisces' point: that we were supposed to have kind words or some other vague thing, I'm not sure since I'm left guessing. The defendant of Pisces isn't that specific. We can get from a shaking head(no no) to a muted look of, well, you've met me halfway but I'm not going to help you pin down my style of thought. I'm not going to get good feedback until I'm willing to say good things about the supposed wonderful qualities [kind thinker, super creative, imaginative, intuitive, compassionate, seeing beyond, poetic, good intentions, transcendent thoughts, musical, divinely inspired, adaptable, empathic] Can I tell them how wonderfully kind and compassionate they are? Doesn't even seem like a quality Mercury can possess. People's can be kind, not people's mercury's. It's almost a question of whether I want good nodding head feedback -- then I can tell them how super creative and inspired they are and receive that feedback. Maybe that kind of a mercury can rule a 1st house without creating a bad person. Last edited by Ariondys on Sun May 26, 2013 4:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
23 by OculusTauri Ariondys wrote: "loathing with authority", 1st choice of synonyms, 2nd disgust It sounds like something to me. Disgust=Hades, Authority=Kronos qualities of the native's Asc are like an open book in the space of one thread. SU=AS/UR --guessed successfully AS=HA/KR --captured in dialogue and in the context of the title a mercury-jupiter connection: ME=AS/JU I see you're a follower of Uranian Astrology by Alfred Witte. Are you also interested in traditional astrology? I've known some people who abandoned it in favour of Uranian, saying it was much more precise. Ariondys wrote:I get feedback telling me I'm off when describing mercury in Pisces to a Pisces. Even without the vibrant language(lying, deceit). If I say they are mumbling(lack of clarity, wanting to remain hidden) or having dreamy thoughts. It may be Mercury in Pisces takes exception to deterministic cataloguing of astrology. And will be happy to escape the probing or cataloguing of someone's else's Mercury. The more exacting we can be about Piscean qualities, such as elusiveness. Well, maybe we are missing the defendant of Pisces' point: that we were supposed to have kind words or some other vague thing, I'm not sure since I'm left guessing. The defendant of Pisces isn't that specific. A person can have the Sun in Aquarius and Mercury in Pisces, too. Or the Sun in Pisces, while Mercury is in Aquarius. The position of the Sun is of no concern in this matter. Besides, Mercury in Pisces isn't automatically bad. We should have a look at its dispositor Jupiter and aspects to other planets. Is the dispositor itself badly placed, or is Mercury afflicted by the infortunes? If so, things are not so rosy from an astrological perspective. Ariondys wrote: I'm not going to get good feedback until I'm willing to say good things about the supposed wonderful qualities [kind thinker, super creative, imaginative, intuitive, compassionate, seeing beyond, poetic, good intentions, transcendent thoughts, musical, divinely inspired, adaptable, empathic] Can I tell them how wonderfully kind and compassionate they are? Doesn't even seem like a quality Mercury can possess. People's can be kind, not people's mercury's. It's almost a question of whether I want good nodding head feedback -- then I can tell them how super creative and inspired they are and receive that feedback. Maybe that kind of a mercury can rule a 1st house without creating a bad person. Us modern people are all more or less subject to wishful thinking. We will readily accept unfounded compliments, if they only flatter our vanity, but will refuse to acknowledge unpleasant realities. Unfortunately, we are currently living in a Venusian age, but one which is Venusian in a negative sense. The Venusian vices of vanity, superficiality and hypocrisy prevail everywhere. People want to "look good" and appear young at any cost. They will use makeup, bleach their hair, have plastical surgeries etc. Beauty is no longer outer symbol of inner goodness, it is merely keeping up appearances. It is no longer natural, but artificial. Not only women, but even men are vain nowadays, just look at the film and pop stars. Our distorted understanding of beauty also extends to the fields of modern arts and music. Being a hedonist is nowadays regarded as "life-style". Media and commercials portray sex, drugs and rock'n'roll as our only meaning of life. Sugar and candy are abounding. We're proud of living in a state of constant love, peace and harmony (at least superficially seen). We keep on smiling even when we feel there's no reason for it. Best example for this is Facebook, where everyone of us has 300+ "friends" and each of them happy and smiling all the time. Facebook is vanity, superficiality and hypocrisy at its best. Our slogan is "make love, not war": Venus and Mars are natural antagonists, so if Venus is dominating our current age, Mars inevitably comes off badly. This resulted in effeminacy, pacifism and ultimately the rise of feminism. Men are wimps nowadays, women are powerful. There are nearly no chaste men anymore, most of them have subjected to pussy power.
24 by Stellarium Hi Shannon, Have you considered looking at your natal chart from the persepective of Whole Sign Houses? Try delineating the chart from that perspective and see if it "fits" better with your actual life experiences to date. I would also advise you to look up Vettius Valens' indicators of eminence, as your chart has indications of high eminence, with significant advancement most likely after the age of 35 (when aphesis from Spirit moves to Gemini). A good resource for Valens' eminence indicators would be some of the articles here: http://www.astrology-x-files.com/x-files/