Pankajdubey wrote:

the sub period reference is to Vimshottari and with Raman's Ayanamsha(or Suryasiddhantawhich is very close).

Yogini dasa involving the same planets is interesting as well.

Thanks that is clear now. I haven't noticed anyone using the Raman ayanamsa here before. Do you use that regularly are you just experimenting?

Pankajdubey wrote:

The real Vedic astrologers (i.e the old fashioned Jyotishis)

Generally, give Dasa (period-sub period) results with reference to the ascendant and Transits(Gochara) from the Moon sign(not the sun sign or ascendant).This is a big difference

If I understand you correctly you are saying ancient Jyotishis used the ASC as the focus for their dasa periods rather than the placement of the Moon?

Any sources to support this claim?

Were they using the Nakshatras for the calculation of these sub-periods?

If instead they incorporated the 12 sign zodiac into this rather than nakshatras it sounds like they used methods commonly utilised in hellenistic astrology and Perso-Arabic astrology.

Pankajdubey wrote:

Gemini is not the fall(or even detriment) of Jupiter in Jyotish.

Good point. I should have picked this up earlier. Detriment is a concept that evolved exclusively in Perso-Arabic astrology and went on to influence western astrology. Its absent in Greek and Indian astrology. Although the Greeks did consider a planet in the opposing sign to its domicile as negative.

Mark

@Mark

The Vimshottari and nakshatra based dasas are calculated from the natal moon nakhatra.

The Dasa lord lordship is decide from the ascendant.

That is the established practice look at vimshottari Dada phala descriptions in Brihatparashara hora.

PD

Pankajdubey wrote:

The Vimshottari and nakshatra based dasas are calculated from the natal moon nakhatra.

This I know.

Pankajdubey wrote:

The Dasa lord lordship is decide from the ascendant.

That is the established practice look at vimshottari Dada phala descriptions in Brihatparashara hora.

This I didn't know.

I had assumed the BPH contained description of the nakshatra based dasa systems. Your saying it has a non-nakshatra system derived from the ASC?

Did you see this thread I opened yesterday and Martin's replies?

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7670

In particular this bit:

Martin Gansten wrote:

The oldest da?? procedures used in India are not based on nak?atras but on classical Greek elements such as the ascendant and luminaries and the angular, succedent and cadent places; they are also intimately connected with life-span calculations (?yurd?ya). This system, commonly known as m?la-da??, is treated for instance in the 8th chapter of the B?hajj?taka and in the 7th chapter of the J?takakarmapaddhati (?r?patipaddhati).

It is interesting to note that as late an author as Balabhadra, arguing in 1629 for the utility of annual revolutions over classical da?? systems, takes m?la-da?? as the standard system:

Mark

Mark wrote:Pankajdubey wrote:

The Vimshottari and nakshatra based dasas are calculated from the natal moon nakhatra.

This I know.

Pankajdubey wrote:

The Dasa lord lordship is decide from the ascendant.

That is the established practice look at vimshottari Dada phala descriptions in Brihatparashara hora.

This I didn't know.

I had assumed the BPH contained description of the nakshatra based dasa systems. Your saying it has a non-nakshatra system derived from the ASC?

...
Mark

Vimshottari which is a nakshatra based dasa is still analysed on the basis of planet's lordship fron the ascendant.

eg: Sun dasa- native begets son if the Sun is the lord of the 5th.

So, the strength of the dasa lord, it's lorsdhip, it's placement from lagna and it's mutual relation with the sub-division lord decides the issuse.

As far as vimshottari is concerned - you get decide the dasa running at birth from the janma nakshatra i.e from the moon nakshatra and then forget about the nakshatra and get on the lordship from the lagna etc.

There are other non nakshatra based dasas like Chara and Sthira dasa, these start from the lagna or the sign where lagna lord is placed and run for 10 years each making 120 years total.

PD

Pankajdubey wrote:

Vimshottari which is a nakshatra based dasa is still analysed on the basis of planet's lordship fron the ascendant.

eg: Sun dasa- native begets son if the Sun is the lord of the 5th.

So, the strength of the dasa lord, it's lorsdhip, it's placement from lagna and it's mutual relation with the sub-division lord decides the issuse.

As far as vimshottari is concerned - you get decide the dasa running at birth from the janma nakshatra i.e from the moon nakshatra and then forget about the nakshatra and get on the lordship from the lagna etc.

I see what you mean now. Its just the way you originally expressed it I thought you were discussing something else. Still, you never exactly dispense with the Nakshatras in this system do you? Ok the influence of the dasa lords is interpreted from the rasi chart. Nevertheless, you need to plot the exact position of the Moon in the Nakshatra at birth to correctly calculate maha dasa and sub-periods. Plus the planetary rulers of the Nakshatras dictate the order of the dasas. So it would seem more accurate to state that the calculation of dasa periods is exclusively Nakshatra based while delineation of their influence in a particular nativity is exclusively rasi chart based.

Pankajdubey wrote:

There are other non nakshatra based dasas like Chara and Sthira dasa, these start from the lagna or the sign where lagna lord is placed and run for 10 years each making 120 years total.

All the books I have so far encountered just go on about the vimshottari dasa without reference to other approaches. So thanks for the link you gave to various online texts including the BPHS. That was helpful.

I have seen online information on what appears to be a dasa system derived from Jaimini utilising a rasi dasa system called Narayana (aka Padakrama dasa)

I assume you saw my recent thread on this topic which I have retitled 'Non-Nakshatra Based Dasa systems''

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7670

Perhaps you might be kind enough to post your last comments there? It probably fits there better anyway. We have obviously drifted a long way from Mr Snowden here.

Thanks

Mark