Hi Neptunehead

I hope the link below helps (and it can open)

http://skyscript.co.uk/hour_agreement.pdf

Regarding Race 2, basically yes. This is just my experience of 29 degrees and also some allowance for uncertainty on the race start.


Race 3 and 4: Radicality is explained in the link, and works around LHR and ascendant ruler agreeing by triplicity, humoral quality, etc. It relates to the planet rather than the sign.

Race 7 , again the link should help: I think I have miscalculated the time with Virgo rising rather than Leo, so scrap my comments. I just rushed through the charts before posting! ( I may have put in 17.15?)

Anyway, let me know what you think. We can try it on another race card, if it assists.

Thank you John, this is great!

I shall study the pdf file and apply it to Doncaster, Lingfield & Ludlow today.

Would it be ok if I posted my novice judgement in this thread, and you cast your eye over it this evening?

Also, should I use both Lilly and Bonatti's definitions?

Hi Neptunehead

I'd be interested to see what happened today. I'll soon find out if radicality and favourites has any connection.

Yes, I use all 4 definitions.

The first three I tend to refer to Bonatti's, including hour ruler and ascendant ruler being in the same triplicity.
The fourth one I refer to as Lilly with the hour ruler and ascendant being in the same triplicity.

Hi John

As I am a LHR novice, I thought it best to study Doncaster first - to make sure I am judging via the correct techniques.

Races 3-7 have the Ascendant Ruler at 0 degrees of Pisces - I am not sure if I should be using Aquarius. Anyway, I stuck with Pisces.

The results are interesting - every Doncaster race chart was radical and every Fav won or placed 2nd apart from one which placed 3rd.

Doncaster

Race 1 ? Radical - LHR & Asc Ruler ? Same Triplicity ? Fav Lost (2nd)

Race 2 ? Radical - LHR & Asc Sign ? Same Ruler ? Fav Won
(Asc is at 0 39? of Leo so I judged a Cancer Asc)

Race 3 ? Radical ? LHR & Asc Ruler ? Same Triplicity ? Fav Won

Race 4 ? Radical ? LHR & Asc Ruler ? Same Triplicity ? Fav Lost (2nd)

Race 5 ? Radical ? LHR & Asc Ruler ? Same Triplicity ? Fav Lost (2nd)

Race 6 ? Radical ? LHR & Asc Ruler ? Same Triplicity ? Fav Won

Race 7 ? Radical ? LHR & Asc Sign ? Same Humour ? Fav Lost (3rd)


Hope I am judging correctly and will post Ludlow & Lingfield once you have read.

Neptunehead, did you place each way bets? Would an each way placepot been better??

Yes, the calculations seem correct. They take a while to get used to!

I go along with comments GB made recently about different football leagues producing different results when games kick-off at the same time. This may well also apply to horse racing. Your observations on the other race cards will be of interest.

If you start to take favourites and radicality as a starting part, the next step is to consider why certain charts may deviate from what is expected!!

Lingfield v1 - (Races 3-7 using the Ascendant Ruler in Pisces 0 degrees 5?)

Race 1 ? Radical - LHR & Asc Ruler ? Same Triplicity ? Fav Won

Race 2 ? Radical - LHR & Asc Sign ? Same Ruler ? (Joint) Fav Won

Race 3 ? Not Radical ? Fav Won

Race 4 ? Radical ? LHR & Asc Ruler ? Same Triplicity ? Fav Lost (Unplaced)

Race 5 ? Radical ? LHR & Asc Ruler ? Same Triplicity ? Fav Lost (2nd)

Race 6 ? Radical ? LHR & Asc Ruler ? Same Triplicity ? Fav Lost (2nd)

Race 7 ? Radical ? LHR & Asc Sign ? Same Humour ? Fav Lost (Unplaced)

Lingfield v2 - (Races 3-7 using the Ascendant Ruler in Aquarius)

Race 1 ? Radical - LHR & Asc Ruler ? Same Triplicity ? Fav Won

Race 2 ? Radical - LHR & Asc Sign ? Same Ruler ? (Joint) Fav Won

Race 3 ?Radical ? LHR & Asc Ruler ? Same Triplicity ? Fav Won

Race 4 ? Not Radical ? Fav Lost (Unplaced)

Race 5 ? Not Radical ?Fav Lost (2nd)

Race 6 ? Not Radical ?Fav Lost (2nd)

Race 7 ? Radical ? LHR & Asc Sign ? Same Humour ? Fav Lost (Unplaced)


John, if we consider a planet is not in a particular zodiac sign until it reaches 1 degree, Lingfield v2 correctly judges 6 out of 7 races. Lingfield v1 only judges 2 out of 7 correctly.

On the question of betting for places, I use the betting exhanges - Betfair/Betdaq.

I didn't place any bets today - been too wrapped up in studying your LHR technique!

Onto Ludlow...

Hi John,

I tested your approach using the definitions of Radicality in the PDF you gave the link, and these are my findings, for my Portuguese Dataset with 863 games:

- Base case: Favorites win about 55% of the time. This is common to the results given by Graham in the February post. If we exclude Draws, which is never the "favorite", Favorites win about 73% of the time.

- If we use the "radicality" information to try to improve the performance on the favorites, the precision drops to 40% (against 55% of Favs). Even excluding Draws, precision is still around 54% (against 73% of the Favorites).

Tomorrow, I'll go check my source code to see if I didn't miss anything, but the number of radical/non-radical charts is what I could expect theoretically, and from the small sample you gave (I have 466 radical charts vs 398 non-radical (~54%) - you gave an example of 4 radical/3-non-radical charts).

Theoretically, given that the information on the favorites is right only in 55% of the cases, and about 54% of the charts are radical, one could almost conclude that radicality had something valuable for this. However, if we remove Draws, although the Precision using the favorites rises to 73%, the proportion of radical charts remains constant at ~54%.

I'll do some more tests tomorrow, but the results don't seem good so far..


Jo?o Ventura

Ludlow v1 - (Races 2-7 using the Ascendant Ruler in Pisces 0 degrees 5?)

Race 1 ? Radical - LHR & Asc Sign ? Same Ruler? Fav Won

Race 2 ? Not Radical? Fav Lost (Unplaced)

Race 3 ? Radical ? LHR & Asc Ruler ? Same Triplicity - Fav Lost (2nd)

Race 4 ? Radical ? LHR & Asc Ruler ? Same Triplicity ? Fav Won

Race 5 ? Radical ? LHR & Asc Ruler ? Same Triplicity ? Fav Won

Race 6 ? Radical ? LHR & Asc Ruler ? Same Humour ? Fav Won

Race 7 ? Radical ? LHR & Asc Sign ? Same Humour ? Fav Lost (Unplaced)

NB: (Race 7 Asc is at 29 degrees of Leo ? not sure if we should make a judgement)

Ludlow v2 - (Races 2-7 using the Ascendant Ruler in Aquarius)

Race 1 ? Radical - LHR & Asc Sign ? Same Ruler ? Fav Won

Race 2 ? Not Radical? Fav Lost (Unplaced)

Race 3 ? Not Radical ? Fav Lost (2nd)

Race 4 ? Not Radical ? Fav Won

Race 5 ? Not Radical ?Fav Won

(Jupiter rules Leo triplicity by night so not sure if to judge chart as radical)

Race 6 ? Radical ? LHR & Asc Ruler ? Same Humour ? Fav Won

Race 7 ? Radical ? LHR & Asc Sign ? Same Humour ? Fav Lost (Unplaced)

NB: (Race 7 Asc is at 29 degrees of Leo ? not sure if we should make a judgement)


John, not sure how to judge the above considering races 5 and 7 (please see notes).

Also Race 7 has POF opposite moon - not sure if this contributes to the result.

NeptuneHead,

may I ask you if you could post the time and location for the charts of the races you have been writing about? Or a link to some website with that information?

I'm not knowledgeable of horse races (here in Portugal we have good football players though), and I could find the tracks websites, but they don't publish the times of the races..

I just would like to check if I'm correctly computing the radicality information comparing it with the information you're giving here..


Thanks,
Jo?o Ventura

Hi Neptunehead

Interesting results. I'll check the charts when time allows. On the fourth method you are correct to consider diurnal/nocturnal triplicity rulers.

Joao

I wouldn't expect results on football games just to be decided on radicality.
I see you have the games as favourites, or not. With the printout on the combinations of LHR/Ascendant ruler they were described as home team/away team.

The conversations about radicality have previously revolved around different types of radicality tending towards different results, again I think this was in the February thread.

Of course, Joao.

I have only been studying radicality for 24 hours so hope I have understood the technique correctly.

Doncaster, UK - 53 31' 16" 1 6' 03"

R1 - 13:45
R2 - 14:20
R3 - 14:50
R4 - 15:25
R5 - 15:55
R6 - 16:25
R7 - 16:55

Lingfield, UK - 51 10' 13" 0 0' 26"

R1 - 13:30
R2 - 14:00
R3 - 14:30
R4 - 15:05
R5 - 15:35
R6 - 16:05
R7 - 16:35

Ludlow, UK - 52 23' 33" 2 45' 3"

R1 - 14:10
R2 - 14:40
R3 - 15:15
R4 - 15:45
R5 - 16:15
R6 - 16:45
R7 - 17:15


Here is the link to the website I use most for horse racing:-

http://www.racingpost.com/horses2/results/home.sd

Thanks, John - an interesting day!