Levente Laszlo wrote:I think the other important question is which the earliest Indian source for this idea is. I've checked the Yavanaj?taka and Var?hamihira's B?hajj?taka, but I don't see it there. Do you have any ideas?

Fleur wrote:I found that events concerning my father were utterly to do with my natal Sun. The transits were lasered on my Sun. And it is nowhere near the ninth house, or its "lord".

I try to keep an open mind, but haven't been convinced so far of any relevancy of planetary rulers of houses, lords or whatever, and also find that planets are far more significant than houses anyway.

35. The Sun is father by day, Saturn at night; the authorities say that Venus is mother by day, and the Moon is considered to be mother at night. This is always (true) ? at conception, during pregnancy, and at birth.

36. One knows the characteristics belonging to the mother and father by means of such things as the good or bad places and aspects (of these planets), by means of the strength or weakness of their mutual configurations, and by means of their conditions, ages, complexions, and qualities.

37. One finds the distinguishing features of the father made clear in the odd signs, that of the mother in the even signs; the guru (of the native), with his caste and his family (jati), is to be established, night and day, from the position and configuration of Jupiter.

121. Father, mother, brother, wife, relative, son, and slave of the natives; such are the natures (respectively) of the Sun, the Moon, Mars, Venus, Jupiter, Mercury, and Saturn.

Valens (II.16 in Pingree?s edition, transl. Riley p. 30) gives these significations for six of the places or houses [...]:
The God (9th house): the father
The Goddess (3rd house): the mother
These are obviously related to the joys of the lights, the benefics and the malefics, respectively, and at least one of them ? that of the 9th house for the father ? seems to have survived the transmission into India.

NOTE: In standard Vedic, the mother is represented by the 4th house while in this system, the mother is represented by the 3rd house.

An independent Indian development is of course possible, but offhand I can't think of any other instance of Indian authors reassigning a signification to a different place/house -- and the father is a major signification. The Indians typically stay quite close to the standard lists of correspondences that we know from Greek sources, although they naturally adapt them to the Indian cultural context.

Uniquely, in Indian astrology [the 2nd] is considered a killing place. We could use Valens logic and argue that the house opposing the other takes on qualities of that house ie the 8th. However, the Indians dont rationalise this house association in that way and give an idiosyncratic understanding of the logic of the 2nd house link to death.

I wonder (this is just me, unsupported) if there could be some association with the "last part of the night", when more deaths do occur, statistically.

In a birth chart there are twelve houses. Each house has been given several names indicating the various subjects it deals with.] The names by which the first house or the Ascendant is known are Lagna, Hora, Kalya, Deha, Udaya, Rupa, Seersha, Vartmana (present) and Janma.

The second house deals with Vitta (wealth), Vidya (learning). Swa, Annapana (riches, food and drinks), Bhukti (eating), the right eye, face (Asya), letter or document (Patrika), Speech (Vak) and Kutumba (family) and thus adopts these appellations.

The names given (or the subjects allotted) to third house are Duschikya, Uras (breast), the right ear, army valour, prowess and brother.

The subjects or designations for the fourth house are house, land, maternal uncle, a sister's son, a relation, a friend, conveyance, mother, kingdom, cow, buffalo, perfume, clothes, ornaments, the nadir, hibuka, sukha (happiness), water, bridge and river.

The fifth house deals with (and has designations accordingly) the mark of the sovereign, taxes, soul, intelligence, knowledge of the future, life, progeny, belly, Vedic knowledge and other religious scriptures.

The sixth house deals with debts, arms, thieves, wounds, diseases, enemies, paternal relations, battle, wicked acts, sins, fear and humilialtion.

The subjects dealt with by the seventh house are desire, passion, setting, sexual desire, a way, people, husband road and wife.

For the eighth house subjects allotted are Mangalya (the living of the husband during the life time of the wife), Randhra, filthiness, mental pain, defeat or humiliation, longevity, sorrow, blame, death, impurity impediments and slavery.

The ninth house deals with preceptor (guru), deity (devta), father,auspiciousness, poorvabhagya (previous luck), worship, penance, virtuous act or virtue, grand son, and noble family.

Translator note: Some of the learneds in the North are of the view that all about father should be examined from the 10th house, because 10th is 7th to the 4th house dealing with the father. The view of Phaladeepika seems to be based on the logic that the 9th being 5th to 5th house (dealing with progeny) should be the most appropriate house to be connected with father).

The subjects (names) designated for the 10th house are business or trade, ranker position, honour, occupation, profession, sky or zenith, conduct, quality, inclination, gait, command and Meshurana (to give orders).

The matters to be considered from the eleventh house are gains, income, acquisition, receipt of wealth, accomplishment, splendor and prosperity, profits, veneration, elder brother or sister, left ear, anything juicy, delightful news.

The expressions used for the twelfth house are misery, leg, left eye, loss, spy, last rites, poverty, sins, bad expenditure and imprisonment or confinement.

The PHALADEEPIKA by MANTRESWARA, Chapter 1, sections 10-16
English Translation, Commentary and annotation by Dr. G. S. Kapoor