The reason for assigning the 5th house to Liverpool was that the querent (Goca, actually) was interested if Liverpool would win the championship, and not if Liverpool would win a particular match. At the moment when she asked the question, the second leg match between PSV Eindhoven and Milan hadn't been played, and Liverpool opponent in the final was not known.

I?m still perplexed. Your approach seemed to make sense earlier but what I didn?t understand then (I?m obviously NOT a sports fan) is that although the identity of the opponent wasn?t known, at the time of the question it was known that Liverpool would be in the final and therefore would have only one match to play to either win or lose the championship. Surely that gives the emphasis back to one particular match as a deciding ?battle? rather than an interest in Liverpool without consideration of its opponent(s) in a league?

It seems an unusual approach to take, but that doesn?t mean it?s the wrong approach of course. I wish you well with your prediction. Or at least I will try to wish you well, considering you have predicted defeat for my country?s team

Hi!
First, thank you all for detailed explanation!
Someone said that there would be better thing to draw event chart when football (sports) match is the case and what then? To read that chart as horary with all these rules mentioned above (Moon?s aspects under 5 degrees and so on)? Why do you think it would be better? Have you some chart to post from real match and to discuss?

Goca

We seem to be talking about two different types of charts here. The example that Tom offered from John Frawley is an event chart. Generally, who gets what house is fairly clear-cut. Well, mostly anyway. There is the issue of whether to put the favourite, your team, or the home team on the Ascendant or whether you use Bonatti?s castle besiegement rules. But, apart from that, it seems like an obvious case of 1st/7th. It shouldn't matter who Liverpool's opponent is or even if we know who the opponent will be. Obviously there will be an opponent because without one there will be no game. In these situations you can't disregard the opposition. There is no competition without an opponent. As Tom pointed out, if someone loses, it generally means that someone else wins (baring draws) and this should show in the chart. The opposition has to be given signification. I still don't agree that horary should be used for these sorts of questions.

The querent is not an important part of the question (he has no role to play), therefore the opponent gets the first house.

Well, in that case, an event chart would be more appropriate. I still can?t see how the opponent would get the 1st house.

Otherwise, if the querent has no personal involvement in the matter under scrutiny, (they ask about their favourite pop star or someone they have read about in the paper for example) they can be removed from the symbolism of the chart so that the ascendant ? the focus of the chart - is given to whatever is the focus of the question.

I reckon Bonatti would be rolling over in his grave at the thought of some of the questions that get asked in horary. 'Judge not upon every slight motion....'

Although I share Sue?s reservations about assigning Liverpool to the 5th house, at least one can argue a logic in it ? when we ask about purchasing a particular house, we look to the 4th house which rules property matters generally.

I see it differently. I can understand the 4th house logic. I can also understand why Lilly uses the 9th house for the Bishop of Canterbury. But the primary issue here isn?t one of sports as such, which, I agree, is a 5th house matter. It is the competition between two opponents, which is 1st/7th. The fact that it is sport is irrelevant. Once the question ?who will win? is asked, it becomes a battle. The question could be whether Liverpool will win the cooking contest.

I heard for the first time about "Bonatti?s castle besiegement rules" and thanks to all of you for this info! For thouse who are on "my level" and interested in this theme I can say that I find this very usefull article online:
http://www.astrologicalassociation.com/ ... ashes.html

Goca

Hi Goca

If you have time on your hands, you may care to have a look at the discussions we had on this forum during the European Cup last summer. The topic title is France v England in the Mundane section

Cheers,
Fi

Hi Ficina!
Thanks for this info! This is just what I need!
Thankfull,
Goca

Hello all!
First of all I can say that all of these post was very instruct for me, but I must to admit that those Tom?s posts were the best! He does not talk much, he goes stright to the essence which I aprove. Internet is very expensive here and I have no money to hang on Internet a lot of time.
I have one more question!
You all debate about the start of match and ho gets 1 or 7 house, but what abouth the fact that teams change sides after half time?

Goca

Hello!
Few days ago I post on Horary Hour forum question about predict winer of football match by horary, and got very interesting answers which I want to share with you. Actualy I post question about match which held on 11 may 2005, 17h, 20e29, 44n48 gmt+2. between ?Crvena Zvezda? and ?Partizan?in semi-final CUP SCG. ?Crvena Zvezda?was home team, and ?Partizan? was guest team. Both of them are at the top of score table ?Meridian leaugue?in SCG, ?Partizan? is 1st, ?Crvena Zvezda?2nd. If we associate ASC to home team, and DSC to guest team, it seams that guest team would win, because Mars is in better strenght than Venus. But it turned out that home team, ?Crvena Zvezda? win with 2:0! Than someone member of this forum (Marnie) asks if some of these two teams have red dress (Mars). Yes, that team ?Crvena Zvezda? has red dress with white stipes; even they had ?red? in there name because ?Crvena Zvezda?=?Red Star?!! I think this is very usefull suggestion when you have to deal with two teams who are pretty equal.

Greetings,
Goca

PS.One more interesting link on this subject:
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/more-hor ... up1986.php