trevor wrote:It seems a few times have been postulated for this pop star.

Astrodatabank gives it a DD rating and lists a few ideas around times.

Born Gary, Indiana

29/8/58

11.53PM - 16' gem ASC
12.45PM - 21' sco ASC

seem to be the 2 most well known 'guesses'.

I'd have thought this would be a simple task for astrologers to work out which is right, or almost right, or if neither are and another is. Jackson has been quite high profile for many years, there are plenty of 'events' to look at and his 'personality' is availiable to some extent as well.

Anyone have any traditional ideas on how to resolve this challenge?

I would offer a traditional Oriental (Vietnamese) astrology method to rectify MJ birth time!

At the risk of "self-advertising", as myself a member of this forum, such topic of MJ Vietnamese birthchart has been started, albeit in Vietnamse only:
http://www.vietlyso.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=286
http://www.vietlyso.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14468

The posting member, Orchid, actually employed the almost midnight time, also based on a quote from MJ himself "after 10:30 PM" and "very late in the night", which also was stated in His Autobiogaphy "Moon Walk"(William Heinemann, London, 1988).

It is interesting to note that it makes no difference, from the Oriental hour between 11PM to 0:59AM in the morning, as this 2-hour time period belongs to the hour of the Rat, and falls into the next Lunar day, 17th day of the 7th month, in the year of the Earth Dog. (It was also noted 16th day of this 7th month it was a Full Moon night, which is usually the 15th day, and in some cases, 16th day of the month. This point is raised just for completeness).

Of course, not only just because of the quote from MJ, or such data printed in the book, the Birth Chart has to be verified against MJ personal character, his grand family (Mom Dad), siblings, ...etc all 12 aspects of a person depicted in the Chart.

In addition, major events such as getting married with Elvis Prestley's daughter in 1994, his peculiar, not so clear children (the way they were born), his religious Mom, his time of death ...etc will have to be rationalised to prove the Chart reflect these events.

Here is MJ Birth Chart, just to show how it would look
http://www.tinvietonline.com/KHHB/tuvi/ ... session=73

This post serves as an introduction, also to see if you have any further interest in MJ Birth Chart, being rectified and to be translated into the English forum soon.

I would probably not able to answer all questions, but will attempt the best I can, if you have some interest.

Have a good day!
KD

" Reincarnation of Mozart "

" .... large, intense, eyes "

http://personalityspirituality.wordpres ... of-mozart/

Now that Michael Jackson is dead. I can give you his birth time.

Michael Jackson was born on August 29th 1958 in Gary Indiana between 8 57 and 9 02 am CDT

Without going in to detail, I will give you the basic reasons. To accurately determine time of birth using the time of events experienced by that person, the houses, mainly the 1st 4th, 7th, and 10th have to line up with the sounds of the universe and the planets as they are the reasons for such experiences. The experience won?t happen if the planets don?t line up...
The time of birth is a main frame for experiences that takes place for that individual. Every singer of music has aspects at 15 degrees. The reason why this is true, the signs are the sounds of the universe in proximity to our solar system.

The 12 signs in the zodiac represent the 12 notes in our diatonic scale. 15 degrees of each sign is the most balanced sound of that sign. The moon represents the voice and mind. It must be placed at a position that has a relationship with the houses equaling 15 degrees. This is the reason why a singer is a singer. If it doesn?t line up, It?s not true. The 11 53 pm time is 100 percent completely wrong? Sorry?

This is not information that you will find in astrology books. I am only doing this for Michael because I love him. The rest you will have to figure it out on your own.

But I can say with this birth time I was able to predict the verdict in his trial to the minute. I don?t think any of you can do that. Unless you can show evidence that can predict, then it is all talk and an illusion of your own mind.

In a nut shell I have confirmed Michael Jackson?s actual birth time by predicting his experiences to the minute. If I was wrong about his birth time I would not be able to do that.

For you tropical astrologers out there. You will never get it right because predictive astrology can be only achieved by using the stars not the 12 pieces on the earth as precession is the main factor in calculating accurate predictions.


Heru.

Why is it that when people first join Skyscript, they immediately head for this thread? Like Heru for instance:

For you tropical astrologers out there. You will never get it right because predictive astrology can be only achieved by using the stars not the 12 pieces on the earth as precession is the main factor in calculating accurate predictions.

You are free to believe what you will, but this is nothing short of arrogance on a thread that has had quite enough of that. If you wish to make a case, make it intelligently, but leave out the personal attacks and hubris.

Tom

Hello Heru,

Now that he's dead you can give the birthtime? You're only doing this because you love him?

What is it that you are doing? The accurate birthtime might help astrologers studying Michael, but I don't see how it helps Michael. ie. what's love got to do with it? If your predictive ability is THAT good (as you say) and you love Michael (as you say), then the question is, why wasn't something more done? You must've seen this coming...

Re: I was able to predict the verdict in his trial to the minute.

Where is that documented? Which publication?

Re: Unless you can show evidence....

Seems only fair that that's what we're asking from you...EVIDENCE.

Central Scrutinizer

I was writing something very similar to Tom at the same time. As I am about to lose my internet connection for a few days, let me leave a request not to add anything to this thread that could inflame opinion. You made an interesting post Hera, but it was spoilt for me by a couple of instances of obvious bigotry.

But I can say with this birth time I was able to predict the verdict in his trial to the minute. I don?t think any of you can do that. Unless you can show evidence that can predict, then it is all talk and an illusion of your own mind.

With respect, unless you can show verifiable evidence that you did predict, then it is all talk and an illusion of your own mind. Actually, my opinion is that getting one fact ?spot on? doesn?t prove anything. I?ve seen astrologers get very impressive results from horaries ? proving nothing about the birth time.

For you tropical astrologers out there. You will never get it right because predictive astrology can be only achieved by using the stars not the 12 pieces on the earth as precession is the main factor in calculating accurate predictions.

You are very welcome to publish your opinion here, but not where you express yourself in such a dogmatic manner. It is insulting to assume that tropical astrologers are unaware of the importance of precession. Of course, that issue is slightly pivotal in the definition of the tropical zodiac!Here?s a good thread if you want to discuss the problems involved in that complex issue:

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?p=38965

Deb

Hello Tom,

I don't always agree with you, but this time, I certainly do.

When you read between the lines, it is as easy to see through Heru's post as it is to see through an "I Love Fur" post on a P.E.T.A. Forum.

It's one thing to leave a controversial post, but it's quite another to point fingers at everyone else while doing so.

Also, there's no real astrology in the post, just self-congratulation. If there's really an incredible technique that we're all missing, then demonstrate it, don't just allude to its perfection. One might as well post that they predicted Michael Jackson's death by the smell of cinnamon. What? You mean you didn't smell it?!

As much as I hate to say it... I have slowly come to the (immensely unpopular) opinion that an actual, scholarly Astrology "board" should have a "pay to play" element. It does have a tendency to weed out most of the people who aren't seriously trying to learn and share together if they have to ESTABLISH WHO THEY ACTUALLY ARE and can't just come flying in like FREE-RANGE SNIPERS, leave something inflammatory anonymously and then sit back and wait for the "fireworks."

Central Scrutinizer

Deb wrote:

I?ve seen astrologers get very impressive results from horaries ? proving nothing about the birth time.

It might not be a bad idea to take a look at CA page 129 where Lilly does a more than respectable "life reading" based on a horary.

CS wrote:

Also, there's no real astrology in the post,

I didn't want to make it sound like the attack that heru launched. It wasn't necessary to pick it apart. Let's take Deb's advice and keep the discussion just that - a discussion.

Tom

Hello Tom,

Yes, of course you (and Deb) are right.

I get frustrated, I guess, because this very same type of activity has spoiled other Astrology sites. Noel Tyl's website is very informative on many different topics, but the Forum obviously has a small set of people who come on as MANY different users (you can usually tell by the low number of previous posts and by the "subtext" of the messages) who stir up conversations, but not in the direction of learning.

Someone will post on the topic, Asteroids, and then someone will follow it up with "Space Dust is obviously for astrologers who aren't skilled enough with traditional techniques." Or something you can probably relate more to, going on a traditional astrology website and proclaiming "it is obvious that Uranus is the one, true ruler of Aquarius." Ad infinitum!

Or, even more obvious are the "when the Saturn-Uranus opposition touched off my natal Mars opposite Pluto and squaring Moon T-Square, it was the happiest time of my life. I've never felt such unremitting joy!"

It is actually to the point, and has been that way for some time, that no one can REALLY know who is real and who isn't (for the most part)...what issues/circumstances are real and which aren't... who has a point and who is peddling compressed gas.

I noticed this behavior back in 1987! on local bulletin board networks. (Not to imply anything about Heru), but we (as System Operators) had put forth a "RAU Theory". The idea was that EVERY board/forum "finds" a Resident A$$____ User and that, when one leaves, another one must follow in his place. In effect, there's basically no escaping it as long as ANYONE can log on as ANYONE and say ANYTHING without repercussions.

I am not as bitter as the post might imply, but I am definitely low on tolerance for posts that seem attacking and non-constructive.

Peace

Central Scrutinizer

Hello,

You "guys" do a good job (from my observation/opinion). I do know it's basically a thankless job.

The result IS that we all learn some things that we likely wouldn't have been exposed to had we not been here. That IS what it is all about. (You are right, Tom, there is great potential to learn some things if one applies his time here well.)

Thanks for taking the time... it does show that you care. Well, either that or Deb has you all under mind control.

Have fun!

Central Scrutinizer

How 'bout that Michael Jackson?

Hello all

Thank you for the responses to my post. I am not an astrologer. I am a astrological engineer., Big difference!! I create systems of astrology I don?t follow them. My perception is quite different then the general perception of astrologers. So I completely understand why you all don?t understand and unfortunately this knowledge is not open to the public for review.

Tropical astrology is out dated by over a 300 years. It is good for giving flavors but is some what abstract. Some of the geometry is close so at times one can predict with limited accuracy. However to predict in real time one must use the precise positions of the planets relative to the stars. Precession provides those measurements.

Tropical astrology does not? it?s that simple. Don?t mean to offend those tropical astrologers out there? The fact of the matter is Tropical astrology uses the earth not the stars.

We are in a solar system that is moving in a galaxy. To be precise in real time we have to measure precisely were we are in our galaxy as in the physical world, the body is governed by the stars and the planets in our solar system.

The human body is made from and works directly with the planets and the stars. True astrology is an exact science precise to the second.

Astrologers today and in the past are still trying to figure it out.. My suggestion is to look inward and use the exact experiences in real time as your teacher.. Also the study anatomy chemistry and biology would be good.

In a nut shell ladies and gentleman, there is no such thing as chance. Chance is nothing more then unknown laws of nature operating. Therefore we call it chance and miracles.

The mind is very illusive and if it is not under control it can and will lead you in circles? So good meditations and exercise of controlling the mind will help you see the truth and not the illusions that keep you astrologers in the dark?

Krishnamurti is a good example to follow. He?s got it right. Not only can he predict when a leaf will fall of a tree. He can predict the way it falls. He learned partly from poker oddly enough. He is an amazing human being!!

The reason why I did this for Michael is so you all can have his actual birth time. If you don?t except this, that is fine... No worries.

My time is accurate to the minute. That is a fact... Take it for what ever it is worth to you... I hope that you can use this time to get more results in your work as astrologers..

Good luck...