Skyscript Astrology Forum

Martin,

I haven’t actually read any of his books; the information I found was all from online sources and chatting with GPT.

Wei wrote: Thu Jun 27, 2024 8:04 am I haven’t actually read any of his books; the information I found was all from online sources and chatting with GPT.

Uh-oh...

I do not believe that a seven day week is just a human convention and it could be also a 10 day week. Same with month. One month is roughly the time from one ingress of the Sun into a sign to the next. And 12 signs is no convention but an attempt to express cosmic laws. One week is roughly the time that takes the Moon to make a square to his previous position a week ago.

I’m not sure if everybody knows how Lords of the Hours and Lords of the Days are connected. So I’ll show it here:

There is a regularity of planets called the Descending Chaldaean Order. It lists them from the slowest to the fastest:
Saturn – Jupiter – Mars – Sun – Venus – Mercury – Moon
Today is Thursday, it’s lord is Jupiter and the very first hour of Thursday is the hour of Jupiter too. This first hour is the hour just after sunrise. The last hour of the day is the hour before sunset. The time from sunrise to sunset was divided in 12 equal sections. Then follow 12 hours of the night until the Sun rises for a new day. So astrologic day hours are long in summer and short in winter. Very nice!

The lord of the second day hour on Thursday is the next planet in this line, Mars. And so on. After the hour ruled by the Moon – the sixth on Thursdays – it starts with Saturn a new repetition. So you see the first hour of the night on Thursdays is the hour of the Moon and the last is that of the Sun. And on it goes with the next planet, Venus. So the first hour of Fridays are ruled by Venus and the Lady of Fridays is Venus too. Because of this every Thursday is followed by a Friday. If you follow the Lords and Ladys of the hours all along a week you see that the cycle repeats after seven days.

If you put the ascending line Chaldaean Planets in a circle – which is appropriate because in traditional astrology almost everything is repeated in circles – it looks like this:
And you see the order of the days of a week shows in a seven-pointed star.

Georgius

Yes, we understand. It's a very perfect heptagram cycle.

P.S.: Your hand-drawn design is adorable.

The question is, today is June 28, 2024, so why is today Friday instead of Thursday or another day of the week? In other words, why is the ruler of the first hour today (June 28) Venus (since it's Friday) instead of Jupiter (since it's not Thursday)? The information available suggests that this might be a human convention.

I know this is hard to accept.

If, indeed, according to many religious teachings, humans possess divinity, then human conventions do not detract from the beauty and sacredness of the system.

For example, our language might be considered a form of incantation. The sounds, words, and drawings created by humans all hold a certain magic.

Rituals also possess magic.

Wei wrote: Thu Jun 27, 2024 5:20 pmThe information available suggests that this might be a human convention.

I know this is hard to accept.

Why would someone like William Lilly say that if the Lord of the Hour of a horary is the same as the Lord of the ASC the chart is valid and ready to be delineated? He would not say this if he thinks the Lord of the Hour is just a human convention!

Please don’t take my words too seriously.

I believe all astrological charts are valid; there are no invalid horary charts.

If you carefully examine the cases provided by William Lilly, he rarely mentions PH.

Whether PH has any effect, I do not know.

What means ”PH“?

Wei wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2024 9:12 pm Here is the information I currently have. If you find more detailed information, please remember to share it with us. Thank you.

The Week: A History of the Unnatural Rhythms That Made Us Who We Are

*David M Henkin*

The author discusses how unlike a year or a month, a week of seven days is not a natural rhythm found in the natural world. While the sun dictates day, season, and year, and the moon dictates each month, a week of seven days is a human invention (it could also be a week of five or ten days).

Etymologically, "Week" derives from Old English "wice" or "wicu," indicating a time cycle. The root of the word, "wikōn-," comes from Proto-Germanic, meaning "change" or "turning," reflecting the cyclical and periodic nature of time.

i was thinking about this some more... the only celestial connection would be the phases of the moon which are approx 7 days... new moon to first quarter - 1st quarter to full moon, fm to 3rd quarter and 3rd quarter to new moon... it has to be off the sun/moon cycle broken into 4 phases....

but deciding which day is which - is completely man made and arbitrary as i see it... sunday - sun day.. fine - it could be any day of the week! i can see the celestial connection with the 4 phases of the moon - as rough as it may be, as that isn't exact either, but all the rest man made make believe stuff..

so - lords of the hours, days as jupiter days and etc. etc. - all arbitrary man made stuff, just like terms or bounds i might add.. completely whacky stuff that has been taken as gospel.. no doubt belief in the bible has helped feed this type of thinking too... it's in the bible - it must be true, lol..

here is one out for any of those who still believe in this stuff... read geoffrey cornelius's book 'the moment of astrology'... either astrology is pure magic, or not.... i can see people going with this, but trying to rationalize stuff - it doesn't work as it is man made stuff and completely arbitrary..

Georgius wrote: Thu Jun 27, 2024 6:05 pm

Why would someone like William Lilly say that if the Lord of the Hour of a horary is the same as the Lord of the ASC the chart is valid and ready to be delineated? He would not say this if he thinks the Lord of the Hour is just a human convention!

if you look at it as some sort of magical thing - it can work... that is the only way it works.. read cornelius's book for more insights into this.. cheers..

PH stands for Planetary Hour. I was a bit lazy and used the abbreviation.

Thank you, James.

Actually, I haven't forced anyone to accept anything. Because I realize that whenever I try to force others to do something or accept an idea, I feel more uncomfortable than they do.

I am also very interested in this topic and have gained a lot during the process of searching for answers.

I certainly don't mean to blame anyone; it's just that I felt some pressure, which made it a bit hard for me to breathe.

It feels like problems keep emerging, as if there are endless questions to answer.

I am also someone who loves asking all kinds of questions, so I can understand how people around me feel.

Therefore, my best friends are Google and ChatGPT, as they never feel annoyed or overwhelmed.