Hello again,

How can you see a person who interviews you as a job as an open enemy?

No, not an open enemy but someone you negotiate with (just like what you do to your associates). Just like in buying an immoveable property, the 1st and moon = querent, 7th = those you NEGOTIATE with, 4th = property, 10th = price/outcome, 2nd = your money (to see whether you have the money), 5th = money from property (to see whether the property would make a good investment or rental property), ...and this of course depends on the question - on which house to emphasize.

But inherently the 7th house seems to have nothing to do with the process of a normal job interview.

Oh yes it does. When the 7th is in bad condition but the 10th is good ceteris paribus it could mean that the interview will be very stressful to the querent but he/she might get the job.

And I do think that some are advocating using the 7th house ruler to stand in for "relationships not otherwise defined" which I can't justify myself.

Oh yes. When I say most of us don't do it, I mean most of the traditional astrologers. The followers of Joan McEvers and Marion March (in their book, The Only Way to Learn Horary and Electional Astrology, Only way to Learn Vol.6) simply assign named persons to the 7th regardless of the relationship of the querent to the person named. For me, "to each his own". It must have worked well with them (they are/were practicing astrologers!).

How can you see a person who interviews you as a job as an open enemy? Just because you're talking to them one on one doesn't make this a 7th house matter in the least.

Not as an open enemy, but as an opponent of sorts. Job interviews can be an ordeal, you aren?t just chatting with the interviewer. Some of them can be quite crafty in trying to trip you up. If the desired job requires a sharp mind and quick thinking the interviewer will probably be pressuring you to think fast and clearly. There you have an opponent. Once again, this would pertain specifically to a question concerning an interview as one step toward getting the job. After the interview has passed the querent could possibly have getting the position as the next question.

And I do think that some are advocating using the 7th house ruler to stand in for "relationships not otherwise defined" which I can't justify myself.

Concerning meeting a new friend: My problem is with using the house of friends (11th) to enquire whether someone will be a friend. I can see no sense in establishing someone as a friend and using the significator of friends to see whether he will be a friend (and therefore whether he qualifies to be signified by the significator of friends ) The 7th serves very well as the person facing the querent and challenging the querent with the desire or need to place him (the quesited) somewhere in the querent?s life. I haven?t budged an inch on this one!

Hello,

From Kirk:-

Quote:
The 7th serves very well as the person facing the querent and challenging the querent with the desire or need to place him (the quesited) somewhere in the querent?s life. I haven?t budged an inch on this one!

You go Kirk!

I have my very own cheerleader!

Surely using the 7th as significator for the Other Person would also yield the nature of the actual relationship by house placement, much as the placement of the Moon by condition/house often reveals the true nature of the query? Being that the 'nature of the relationship' is also being queried, and that 'friend' in this case may have underlying connotations, wouldn't it make more sense to use the 7th instead of the 11th, and then use H5 as an indicator? I mean, there are friends and there are 'friends', and when the relationship is open to debate the 7th would seem to be more appropriate.

Well maybe, but it was my question and I don't doubt the nature of the relationship at all - this is a friend, not a lover or a boss - my only question was how good a friend.

I can't accept one bit the notion that I should use the 7th house just because it's someone I just met. I've had people ask me if they will meet a new boy friend soon and I've used the 7th house for a person they haven't even met. I'd use the 11th house if they had asked if they'll meet any new friends soon, even if they had no one in mind. And I'd use the 10th house for someone who's job hunting to show any new jobs that are coming along and what they will be like even if they had no particular job in mind or in sight. I don't see why I would not use those houses.

Some folks have brought up examples of "undefined" relationships, for example if someone will be a friend or a lover. On other threads, people have put forth two options that they want to persue and have asked which course is best, and the consensus is that when you do a chart, you pick the one course you're most interested in and read the chart for that one potential. So....if someone asked me if the person they just met was going to be a lover or just a friend, I'd use the 7th house to see if they were going to be romantically involved or not. In such a case, the person is always most interested in romance, so you'd use the 7th house whether the relationship is solid or whether it's just in the querent's head and heart.

I keep things simple and regular. A job interview is always a 10th house matter because it most closely relates to your position in the world and career. The job interviewer may be an SOB or a great person. They might interrogate you or might be a pussy cat. But inherently, the thing that all job interviewers have in common is that they have the power to hire you, and that makes them a 10th house concern. House designations are defined at the most abstract level not at the level of specific and transitory conditions. In the old days at least, secretaries were frequently beautiful women, but a man's secretary would still be shown by the 6th house as an employee not by the 5th house. Our mothers are our first and best teachers but that doesn't put them under the 9th house because their primary role is of someone who has power and influence over us so that's the 10th house.

Hmmm, yes, when you put it that way it *does* make the most sense! I guess the key is, as Deb has said elsewhere, to have the significators clear in your *own* mind before casting the chart. The question is the answer, um, so to speak....

... but it was my question and I don't doubt the nature of the relationship at all - this is a friend, not a lover or a boss - my only question was how good a friend.

No, that wasn?t your (only) question. Doubt of the relationship?s nature was the central focus. Your question was clarified and reformulated after the discussion of which house to use for the quesited?s significator. Here, again, is what was written in the original post:

I met someone today while on tour who I thought would make a great friend. What was supposed to be a short meeting turned into an all day and evening with dinner. My question was is this going to be a good friendship or just a chance meeting, and what will the nature and spirit of the friendship be? [emphasis mine]

?...is this going to be a good friendship or just a chance meeting?

And further in the same post:

I guess the headline of this chart is that this will be a real friendship and not just a chance meeting.[emphasis mine]

These two quotes from the initial post indicate that the original question was a look at the possibility of it not becoming a friendship and only remaining a chance meeting. The question is one of either/or ? friendship or no friendship. There was plenty of doubt concerning the nature of the relationship. You have emphasized the friendship aspect since the original post to fit your stance on using the 11th house, the house of friends. The question was changed after discussion had begun. Now we are told to reinterpret the question in the vein of ?what I meant was...?(after an intense discussion of which house to use). This is shoddy horary practice. There must be a tight, clean approach in the beginning with the question or we?re caught in the much-denigrated frequent fuzziness of current common practice.

For all of those who doubt me, this was and always will be an 11th house matter because I asked about the nature of a friendship. It was my question, I asked about it with the 11th house clearly in mind - and even if my question was "Will I Meet a New Friend Today?", with no one in particular in mind, the person would have been signified by the 11th house.

I must state I am rather uncomfortable with the way this thread has gone.

Mark explained his position quite clearly some time ago and as the questioner I cannot see how he breached sound traditional principles.

I think there always needs to be a degree of respect conveyed to the astrologer to follow their own intuition in such matters as long as traditional principles are not being discarded.

At times this thread looks more like a cross-examination of Mark with him having to defend himself 'in the dock'.

Clearly, some people here don't agree with his choice of using the 11th house. They have set out their counter-position in great detail. As long as this difference of opinion is respected that seems fine.

What worries me here is that I sense an attempt to make Mark accept he is 'wrong' in some way. Persisting down this kind of line is quite unhelpful in my view. Its true we seek greater precision in traditional astrology. However, surely not to the extent that there is no room for any diversity within a traditional approach.

Hello
Sorry my friend but this relationship is seemingly going nowhere. Saturn, ruler of your Asc. is in the 8th house, of transformation and Venus of relationships is square to Saturn. Whilst this can mean a really big obstacle to overcome, I wonder why you wish to enter into this relationship. Look to the last aspect of the moon and the last conjuntion the Moon made to any plamet to understand how your query will work out.

Kind regards
Doranne

Doranne,

That's an interesting approach - to look at both the Moon's final aspect, and the Moon's previous conjunction with any planet. Though I've heard of looking at the Moon's final contact with a planet before it switches signs as a way of seeing how the situation witll resolve, I've never heard of using the Moon's previous conjunction.

It seems that the Moon now is void of course, counting only the traditional planets. That's usually a sign that nothing will happen in a chart.

The last conjunction the Moon made was to Saturn, me, but I'm very unsure of that method as I've never used it or heard about it. The Moon also was in a differnent sign and I've never looked at contacts the Moon makes outside of it's current sign.

I don't have Saturn in the 8th house in my chart. It's at the end of the 7th but it's outside of 5 degrees of the 8th house cusp. But that could be based on us using different house systems.

At the risk of beating a horse that died some time ago, this is a friendship, not a "relationship", so I don't think that Venus represents this guy. But I do wonder what the role of Venus is as she's so strong in essential and accidental dignity and is applying to my significator. I didn't notice this before, but Venus frustrates the conjunct between Mars and Saturn, as Venus comes to square Saturn before Mars becomes conjuct with Saturn.

Back on earth here, I've contacted this guy a few times by e-mail (he doesn't have a phone and has to use his office PC) and he's replied that he wants to get together to do what I've suggested but our schedules haven't matched up yet. Time will tell.