At the risk of posting to a topic that?s gone a little ?cold? I thought that you might find the following article of some considerable interest:

http://www.studiesincomparativereligion ... spx?ID=159

It?s not too long (about 5 pages) and it treats its subject with a depth of understanding and insight that is rare in matters where religion and astrology overlap.

Broadly speaking, the article takes the "Deadly Sins" as point of departure for a brief but profound study of the nature and structure of the human soul - it?s relation to the divine Spirit, the ?Fall? which opens the doorway to ?sin? (described as a turning inside-out or an upside-down of the psychic faculties), and even touching upon the mystical means of return to the soul?s primordial, ?Edenic? harmony.

The planetary correspondences to the Deadly Sins themselves are only given in a footnote and yet enough is said about the ?virtuous? origin of the sins, i.e. the spiritual faculties of the soul, to offer the astrologer a glimpse of planetary meaning that actually lifts them above the realm of horoscopic interpretations.

Obviously the article is not about astrology as such, but I think it bears mention here for the way in which the writer passes so effortlessly between different symbolisms, astrological, numerological, and religious, giving expression to a universality of perspective that has the power to resolve many unnecessary controversies.

See what you think.

Robert.

Thanks Robert for the link to the article which was excellent.Have you seen the "Logos and Light" Lecture series by Ben Dykes mentioned in the News Forum here? I am sure that you will find it of interest.

Best wishes

Matt

Thanks for the reference Matt, I received a 'marketing' e-mail about Ben Dykes' "Logos and Light" series a short while ago and gave it a quick look on his web site. It does indeed look interesting, but I'm concentrating on improving my knowledge of horary at the moment and so I decided to put it on hold for the time being.
Cheers,
Robert.

If you are going for practice over theory then that's fine by me.

Regards

Matt

Hello!

What a wonderful feature of these forums ? the ability to post replies to what people wrote years ago.
Having just arrived here I went through the various topic headings and felicitously found posts on planets and the 7 deadly sins. Because I?ve been attempting to penetrate Dante?s Commedia lately this was of great interest to me. I found that Deb had found the same article than I had that attributed a Hellenistic and astronomic origin to the doctrine of the 7 deadly sins.
The interesting thing in the Purgatorio is that Dante never makes a direct correlation between planets and sins ? that would violate the doctrine of the essential goodness of the planetary realms and that he has much bigger matters for the planets up in paradise where he is within planetary spheres.

Here?s the line-up for paradise:

Moon ? those good people who violated religious vows.
Mercury ? lovers of honor.
Venus ? lovers of love (and luxury, I surmise)

Sun in the middle ? wise or learned people ? theologians and more

Mars ? crusaders and martyrs
Jupiter ? people who are just (mostly but not exclusively rulers)
Saturn ? contemplatives.


Now here?s the order of the purifications of 7 deadly sins in Dantes purgatory together with a contemporary attribution of planets and sins.

Pride (Sun)
Envy (Moon)
Anger (Mars)

Sloth in the middle (Saturn)


Avarice (Mercury)
Gluttony (Jupiter)
Lust (Venus)


It took me a long time before I began to make sense of this sequence. The Sun and Moon are the most universal of planets as luminaries, and pride and envy are the most pervasive and foundational vices. Here not Sun but Saturn is in the middle. Why Saturn ? it is the planet of laziness. It is not an evil will but laziness that has kept us lagging behind spiritually. Then we?re at the more neutral Mercury and the two benefics at the top. These three vices are based on an excess of love and so have more redeeming qualities than the vices below them. Therefore they should be governed by the two benefics.

As far as I can tell nobody of all the great Dante scholars have written about this directly. I feel that because I ponder astrological symbolism as a profession I have an advantage here.

Okay ? now I?ll post this and see if it goes through.


Joseph Crane

Hi Joseph

Congratulations on learning how to post directly to the forum

That is really interesting. I read half of your post and then hung over the list that had sloth and Saturn in the middle. Having the Sun in the middle of the virtues made such sense, because the Sun is the centre of all the important ancient schemes, so I just couldn?t get my head around you moving Saturn to the middle place, and had to think it through a little before reading on.

Yes ? I agree. And what?s more, it is perfectly suitable for Saturn to become the ?kingpin? of the vices. This is what happens as the general theme ? the Sun is the main significator for life, so Saturn, its opposite, signifies death and rules the opposing signs. The Sun is exalted in Aries which ushers in spring, so Saturn is exalted in Libra which ushers in autumn (because what the Sun generates, Saturn destroys, etc). The Sun is the generator of princely virtue, and Saturn, of course, is the generator of mortal vice.

And then I read your explanation ? perfect! Everything falls into place.

I know that you are studying Dante and wonder how that project is going. Are you going to be publishing anything on it anytime soon? What you have done here is very elegant.

Deb

Hi Deb,
I must have caught you right next to the computer.
Thanks much for your kind words. I hadn't figured out the pattern before of Dante's sequence and the planets and it does fit into place.
I will backmail you a draft of this section -- only a draft.
Manuscript feels about half done.
Writing this sometimes feels like being in a dark wood, sometimes encased in ice and when it's getting better it's like trying to move in purgatory after the sun has gone down. However I love the way it finally comes out at least so far.
Joseph

I thought you said you were going to ?blackmail? me and I wondered what I?d done
That sounds good. I don?t know as much about Dante as I think I should - I?m waiting for you to educate me.

I don't to be the usual nasty girl but Dante cosmology it's not really unknown...
I would give it for granted

http://istruzione.umbria.it/news2008/da ... ologia.pdf

It's in italian, but i'm ready to swear that whatever introduction to Inferno says the same things.

margherita

I found some notes from Paradiso:

From the first sky to the seventh we have:

Moon: changeable spirits

Mercury: active spirits (they operated the good for fame)

Venus: lover spirits

Sun: wise spirits

Mars: combative spirits

Jupiter: judging spirits

Saturn: contemplative spirits,

Primum mobile: angels chorus

Empyrean: the Pure Rose of blessed.

On the other hand in Inferno, there are planets skies, but 9 circles of a pit- at the beginning the roots of all the sins, lust, arrogance and avarice.

The more you go down, the more sins are awful and God is far-

1st circle: not baptised souls

2nd : lustful souls

3rd: gluttonous souls

4th: greedy and spendthrift souls;

5th: short-tempered souls;

6th: heretic souls

7th: violent souls ( against others, themselves, God and nature)

8th: fraudulent souls ( seducers, simoniacal, magicians and fortune tellers- here there is Guido Bonatti- thieves, liars;

9th: betrayers of homeland, friendship, hospitality.


Hope it helps,
margherita

Thanks Margherita! Very helpful indeed.

Well, to be honest I don't believe that sins follow planetary order in Inferno and Purgatorio.

The only place where planets are mentioned is in Paradiso, because we are talking of the eight Aristotle skies.

In Purgatorio and Inferno sins are disposed just according their severity.

Too much love for example is at the beginning of the Inferno (the famous Paolo and Francesca, who had no other guilty let alone to be in love) and at the top of Purgatorio.
Why Venus should be at beginning of the list? And Mercury?

On the other still now, I could not find anything more awful that "betrayers of friendship and hospitality".

This comes directly from ancient Greek/Latin education. Here Dante is not mentioning planets, he is mentioning Mediterranean tradition.

Margherita