Yap, I'm starting to get used to using only traditional rulers and most of the times it makes a lot of sense. I'm just not used to excluding Neptune when looking at Pisces in the chart, high time for me to get used to it!

Thanx, kali!

And now. since I promissed to keep Ema informed on how the things were going on concerning the chart I startded this topic with - here's how the thing are. But, first, I'll give you an insight in the past situation because I did say the circumstances were rather strange the moment I asked the question as well as some time before. Now, that Sun/Saturn conjuction might have been saying I was too blind to see things clearly but than again is considered to be a big malefic. Though, didn't know that things could get this rough. This is not a love matter any more, is a lot more than that and, since I started with my chart(s) (I'm giving the time for another one at the end of the post), I think it would be fair enough for me to at least learn something from them as strange and painful as it is. Hope you can help me here because there must some kind of pattern that can be found in both or at least one of them that would fit the actual story.

Here's how the soapy story goes. I started working on a new job in May and have got a job contract signed only untill Mid October (from how the things look like right now, there are almost no chances for me to stay over the winter, only to wait untill next April/May but that's a whole new story). Anyway, a younger girl whom I had met before we started working together (two months earlier) started working the same day I did. A good looking, a bit irritant but not like some others, 22 years old, in a 2 years long realtionship with a boy she kept on and on talking about and desperately searching for attention (though she gets a lot of it on daily basis). Just a few days after we started working, a younger boy from the same firm started making himself almost funny trying to get my attention. It wasn't someone I would consider dating but it is a nice feeling to know someone likes you. Not to misslead him, i decided not to go to a party he had invited me to. The morning after the party someone told me she had split with her boyfriend that very evening and "started something" with the guy I mentioned. To be completely hones, I really, really thought it was a happy ending for it's the two of them who fit together although you never feel completely well when someone stops chasing you! A month or so later, the things have changed and I started looking at the guy few years younger than me and withing a blink of an eye I heard she mentioned she liked him, did her best to find him one day and ended up in an "open" realtionship with him. Now, that was frustrating!!! (I have to mention- she never knew anything and, as far as I know she knew nothing about the first situation either so, we'rw not talking about someone who is trying to harm me or imitate me in any way, that I'm sure of)! The first boy started being anoyed by her behaviour, all sorts of new men and boy and cooled a bit but is still after her (poor one). Again, I said to myself it was about time to accept the fact that 22 and 29 (me) don't go together and that I should turn back to my previous life otherways ... By the time I forgot all about this I realized I was in love like I haven't been in the last few years. Now, this is a serious part because I'm not talking affections, like me, like him sort of things, I did fall in love with him I it doesn't happen to me that often.He is a man of 30-something, we work together (something Ema had spotted in the first chart) and was positive he liked me though it took me a while to "notice" him. The moment I realized and admitted myself how much i liked him, that very day, the GIRL came to work saying she had had a car accident and guess who the first person (IN TOWN!!!) who stopped was- the very third man. Now, I emidiatelly dissmised all the paranoid thoughts and spent the next month, maybe a month and half thinking there's no such thing as third bad luck. During that period I casted the first chart! Today (don't know if aspects could show, but it's been exactlly 2 weeks since the first question) I realized he's after her. In front of me, in front of everyone.Don't see her objecting either. Openly, no doubt. Me- zero!Regardless the fact we all work together, we don't comunicate much. So the key to the two of them getting closer was, as apsurde as it might sound, that harmless car crash. Something works for her even when she doesn't move her finger.

The chart I casted today was for the queston "Is there someone standing between the two of us?".

it's 17 Sept, 2008., 19,55 CET, 13e50, 44n52.
The first look at the chart says it all (though, feel free to add your comments, haven't been analyzing it much as I've been only looking for the most obvious), BUT, as I said, this is not a love question of a teenager girl any more, there must be some kind of a pattern and I would like to know how to find it in the chart (been there in the real life, the least I can do is to learn something from it). Could it be a spell (can those be seen in a horary chart)? It's not as if you fall in love with three men who all had the same girlfriend (not that hard to find, anyways), but her timing is just like mine and it's scary to say the least.

What is the chart telling you?

Hi aglaya, I've read your post carefully but I don't understand. What are you trying to tell? Are you asking about the same relationship again now? Are you going to ask the same question again and again, in the hope that once the heavens will "take pity" on you and give an affirmative answer, like yes of course darling you two are made for each other??? Don't do that. One question and one chart is just enough. Never try to force the "universe" this way, you won't get far Now the first problem is that you haven't given us the right data. If the question was asked in Croatia (Pula wasn't it?) then the time zone is CED (Central European Daylight -2) and not CET -1. This gives asc. 18 Aries, Mars in detriment on cusp of 7th, showing your big concern in that partnership but since Mars is debilitated you've no power here. What's more the 7th ruler Venus is conjunct Mercury who is standing between you two, very explicitly and definitely so - you can see Mercury in between Mars and Venus, can't you? Now Mercury is this another person, probably your coworker because it co-rules your 6th house, but since Venus is moving away from it - like away from Mars, ie. you, too, this means that the guy is going away from both of you and is not going to date neither of you. He's just been flirting (Venus!) but it looks like he'll soon look for greener pastures. I'm sorry to have to say this but it seems a grim reality . Next time you post a chart give as the place rather than time zone because you might err, and so would we, fortunately I live in a neighbouring country with the same time zone so I happen to know this and I spotted it on time... And, of course, you should give us your own analysis of the chart first, not just asking other people but actively practice your art. I know it's hard because this question is so very personal, but try And keep your head up, there're tons of fresh meat on the street

Sorry, Ema, it is CED, and, yes, you are familiar with this time zone, of course. I'm glad you're so close! Now, it's not about changing the destiniy thing nor did I want a different answer (I'm old enough to cope with things such as a wrong guy ). It is a question about the same man but, the first time it really was a benign question with no second thoughts. Since we never discovered whether there was a third party or not, now that I figured out there has to be (in a way) I just specified the question asking about it because the possibility of having the same female character behind my back scared the hell out of me (sorry! ) to say the least. Maybe I was looking for a more profound description than a coworker. A trace of some strange influence..don't know (and wouldn't know it even if I saw it).
So, as I said, it is not about the two of us any more (love story blah, blah), I thougt that the thing that happens for three times, happens for reason (it's what I'd been talking about in the previous post) so, without the second chart I couldn't get the answer whether that acctually is someone else, sort of saying, but now that we've cleared that out, I thought that there might be some sign of that strange interference between my and that young lady's path.What I could have done, perhaps, was to search for an answer regarding that strange connection between me and her but I'm absolutely unfamiliar with that sphere. I'm sure I can't read it from those charts yet- she is there and it's getting more and more weird. I'll be honest and say that I'm having hard time beliveing in black magic (judge me if you want! )but can someone be after you so intensively?! So, never mind the man, what I saw in the chart was connected with the answer but not more than that. A co-worker, yes. But the one that freakens me out! Maybe some other type of chart would be better to read for such an answer and maby one of the modern ruler would explain it a bit better (Neptune perhaps?!, just guessing thoug!) but I've never been investigating such a thing before. The only strange thing I see is that the third party (mercury) conjucts my significator!

And, as for the chart itself, sure, it shows very clearly the third party in the middle (expected!), besides the fact ic could be a coworker, Mercury might be a sign of a younger person. In his house and sign, obviously intersted in him as well, him, with his significator in his own first (for the second question concerning him), being selforientated and possibly looking only for fun. (don't know if I'm right there, in the first chart the ruler of the 8th was in his first ie sexual attraction, maybe).
I'm having trouble figuring this Jupiter/Saturn trine but with 10th and 6th Or turned 4th and 12th), it seems like job-thing, nothing to do with the question. Separating aspects and Moon separating from an oppsiotion with both significators are a again a negative sign (not the negative answer). Hope I got that right.

But, I have to ask another question, I've been through a lot of charts here on the forum (it helps to see oppinions and readings) and there's one thing I didn't find the answer to though I spotted it a few times- and it is about receptions: if we see, one of the significators in, say, trine, triplicity and face (all of them) of, for example- Venus, yet, venus is not the significator of either Querent or Quesited nor the ruler of the houses they are in, do we need to pay attention to the houses that Venus rules, are they relevant?

Ema wrote:...Venus is moving away from it - like away from Mars, ie. you, too, this means that the guy is going away from both of you

Isn't Mercury, as a faster planet, moving towards Venus? (mars faster than Venus- him away from me but Mercury faster than Venus- she'll be embracing him soon?)? Because, i also thought it wasn't going to last for a long time (if it was any kind of a real relaitionship at all) but I thought it was because of the fact that Moon is in a separating opposition with their two significators (as well as with mine) plus the moon is in VOC though, I'm not sure whether it is relevant since it does not concern the Querent (it's the aspect between L7 and the trhird party).
So, I thought that SHE may be moving away from him after some time but that whatever was ment to happen between the two of them is YET to happen. So, I'm obviously making a mistake here (seems like the mistakes I make in horary are always about swithed positions).

Also, she (Mercury) will "soon" enter Scorpio (detriment of Venus) which might be a sign of a short attention/attraction (him towards her! again, not sure I see this right). His significator moving into Scorpio- new fun/woman/attraction/realtionship.
My significator, on the other hand, is slowly walking into my own sign meaning (hopefuly) I'll soon be standing on the safeland.

Am i making any sense here?

AGLAYA

Mercury is about to go retrograde .. what scorpio are we talking about here?

Btw .. why are you making a question complicated? if there is 3rd person, you will see in the chart in maybe interference or refranation. Dont make things more complicated. Horary is complicated thing as is?

CD

Isn't Mercury, as a faster planet, moving towards Venus?

Mercury is much slower than Venus these days because as cosmicdolphin pointed out it's turning retrograde so the aspect is separating.

Hi all

I think we need to go back to original chart cause 2nd chart is almost not making any sense cause it is trivial in a way. From 3 pages of reading, I cannot find the original chart. Ema, do you know where it is ?

Thanks
CD

02, September 2008, 18h47min, Pula, Croatia - that wasthe time and place of the first question and it was concerning only potential relationship.

This second, I casted to check whether there might be another person in the story and I really had one particular person in mind - the one whose interference with my life is becoming extremly strange. That should be that Mercury. And it is in a close conjuction with my significator, don't know if that means anything.

Why would you say the second chart is trivial? And thanx for this retrograde Mercury explanation (I guess it's so trivial to see a newby paying attention to all those non-important things and complicating the story and missing important ones at the same time.)

AGLAYA


i am getting 20 aquarius rising and moon 15 libra

okay sooo

Okay let's start from the top

You are Sun 10 virgo in 7th house
Dignity - 0
Reception - 0
Peregrine!

The guy is Saturn
No reception to you
no dignity on its own other than Mutual reception to other planets

Moon is void

Answer is NO! You will not be with him.
Neptune is on asce - self-deception or living in a fantasy land
add moon void .. you get - nothing.

2nd chart you are asking the same question basically .. is there anyone between you 2. There is no need for it. We need to stick with 1st chart.
i think you are testing to see if it will show you why you cannot be with him. It is ok.. we all done twisting and rewording the question to get an answer.

Cheers
CD

Thanx, cosmicdolphin (don't know why I keep reading it as a cosmodolphin ) .Now, I've noticed you've involved Neptune in the reading and I think it was in this very topic I asked the question about it since my friend astrologer, who generally uses only traditional planets in horary, told me the other day she never dismisses Neptune when found on the Ascendant. She says that, with no exception, each time she had found it there, it was a situation with either lots of tears or self-deception which exactlly fits your story. She doesn't take Neptune aspects seriously but she does pay attention to its position on the Ascendant or somewhere close to it (1st and 12th).

Now, what you're saying here "no dignity on its own other than Mutual reception to other " is close to what I was asking previously- is there any significance in a planet being positioned in a few dignities of another planet yet not directly involved in a question. (in this forst chart, for example, My ruler- Saturn is in Venus triplicity, face and term, though, also in it's fall. Yet, Venus does not rule any of the significant houses- is that something one should pay attention to? I'm not asking this because I want anything more from this chart I'm asking because I'm trying to learn from. It's rather easy to find explanations of Mutual reception and dignities but I don't think I've found an answer to this yet! Does this Venus mean something, does the fact that L1 is in it's own term/face/sign...and things like that

Thanx, cosmicdolphin (don't know why I keep reading it as a cosmodolphin ) .

*** mercury retrograde? ****

Now, I've noticed you've involved Neptune in the reading and I think it was in this very topic I asked the youestion about it since my friend astrologer, who generally uses only traditional planets in horary, told me the other day she never dismisses Neptune when found on Ascendant. She says that, with no exception, each time she had found it there, it was a situation with either lots of tears or self-deception which exactlly fits your story. She doesn't take Neptune aspects seriously but she does pay attention to it's position on the Ascendant or somewhere close to it (1st and 12th).

*** if any big planets on the cusp of important house or planet, you should consider it to be very important. your friend is right ****


Now, what you're saying here "no dignity on its own other than Mutual reception to other " is close to what I was asking previously- is there any significance in a planet being positioned in a few dignities of another planet yet not directly involved in a question.

*** if it has nothing to do with your significators - ignore it. you must have saturn / sun reception somewhere except detriment and fall****

(in this forst chart, for example, My ruler- Saturn is in Venus triplicity, face and term, though, also in it's fall. Yet, Venus does not rule any of the significant houses- is that something one should pay attention to? I'm not asking this because I want anything more from this chart I'm asking because I'm trying to learn from. It's rather easy to find explanations of Mutual reception and dignities but I don't think I've found an answer to this yet! Does this Venus mean something, does the fact that L1 is in it's own term/face/sign...and things like that

*** in your question, NO! nothing! ... see .. horary is simple and complicated..

planet 1 and 2 must have a possitive aspect
with that aspect you need to have a reception and or dignity

if aspect is missing, look for antiscia, Translation of light , or collection of light.

if there are still no aspects.. look at the moon .. moon will tell you the story. if moon aspects the ruler possitively, then it is usually a go unless there is debilitation going on ***

makes sense?
CD