granny_skot wrote: If I use idioms or acronyms that dont make sense to you, let me know

Very kind of you, English makes me crazy

Rofl, considering the lack there of in the middle ages (intellectual, reading etc.. of christians in general, not specific) I find that connection even more dubious! mercury to christianity that is... boy someone was feeling pretty sure of himself when he wrote that (read arrogant for that)

Well, the lack of printed books does not mean the lack of education. It's difficult to think about Middle Ages as an age without cultural and philosophical debate.

the 9th the religion of the country the conflict is in(if it has only one or if one is known to be a root cause), the 3rd the religion (if the country has one) to the country attacking. this makes far more sense to me than in arbitrarily assigning a planet.

Yes, we can use house rulers too, but Venus for Muslims is such a standard that it's difficult to renounce to it.

Anyway I'm not sure people make war because of their religion. When people have a decent life and a proper work and a house why they spend their time killing around for Allah, Yahve, or God?
I believe this is a conflict about Land - Thomas in his comment to my blog underlined it.- And in fact which is the most important factor in the event chart, Moon ruler of the 4th house (and general significator of Land) at synod with the Sun at MC. It's the first thing we can see in the chart.

because they are all too damn narrow minded to see any thing but they're own narrow view, hence many people dead.

I completely agree with you.

Margherita

For instance you draw up a chart for the beginning of a conflict and the 1st house represents the country the conflict is IN, the 7th the attacker. the 9th the religion of the country the conflict is in(if it has only one or if one is known to be a root cause), the 3rd the religion (if the country has one) to the country attacking. this makes far more sense to me than in arbitrarily assigning a planet.

I think, based upon the teachings of Bonatti and Sahl ibn Bishr, that the first house of any conflict chart always represents the attacker, the 7th consequently the attacked.

In his own words:"The ascendant signifies the party beginning the war and his cause and the thing which excited the war and whether it began with truth or falsehood.The first house signifies the party beginning the war because the first thing which comes into a war is the beginner.
But for the enemy, take the seventh house and make that the first of the enemy and make the eighth his second..."etc.

cor scorpii wrote:
I think, based upon the teachings of Bonatti and Sahl ibn Bishr, that the first house of any conflict chart always represents the attacker, the 7th consequently the attacked.

Merci, I took it for granted,
Margherita

As 7th house generally represents enemy, why would 1st house be attacker? makes no sense? Granted I think in terms of asking on behalf of the attacked, a maternal instinct I suppose.

Granny

granny_skot wrote:A Granted I think in terms of asking on behalf of the attacked, a maternal instinct I suppose.

No, granted in the astrological sense, obviously.
Margherita

Interesting discussion on the question of the aggressor here. In the sports section we mostly agree upon giving the ascendant to the home team, which is the team that posesses the battlefield. I think 'War' in general is Mars and the 7th house. Surely it depends how you look on it? If I go to War, I am the 1st house, but attack the issues of the 7th house. If I am attacked, the attacker is the 7th - and I get to keep the 1st.

Since this thread started with the conjunction between Mars and Pluto in Capricorn, which is a sign of many ambitious claims, a thought struck me regarding the co-rulership of Scorpio. Mars and Pluto. Authorities disagree as whether priority should be given to the modern or traditional ruler. The same has been suggested regarding Aries, that by following the 'Ladder of Planets' (Sakoian & Acker) Pluto was a secondary co-ruler of this sign. Aries is the battlefield and ownership of this terrain is the issue of strife. Mars and Pluto in Capricorn brought the issue to surface and claims to a new boil.

Andrew Bevan wrote:I think 'War' in general is Mars and the 7th house. Surely it depends how you look on it? If I go to War, I am the 1st house, but attack the issues of the 7th house. If I am attacked, the attacker is the 7th - and I get to keep the 1st.

Dorotheus of Sidon, chap.33 (Pingree translation pages 292-293):

"Look if you want to know this at the hour in which you are asked to the Ascendant as the Ascendant indicates the matter of incitements and the commencements of quarrels............. See the condition of the defendent in the seventh sign."

Margherita

I could not entirely agree with that, Gjiada, but thank you for quoting Dorotheus. In my practice of numerous lawsuits it was not always the querent who induced the fight, but then maybe the sign on the ascendant says something about what the fight concerns?

In a football game the battle concerns taking possession of the field. This is done by the team that succeeds in scoring the most goals.

I was thinking about this and I was wondering if you looked at the GAza/Israel fight as a Civil war you could actually use houses 10 and 4, 10 for current ruler and 4 for anarchists. They are after all a faction fighting with a country with innocent civillians in the mix... the problem would be what kind of chart are you looking at? horary? mundane? Ingress? who wants to know? etc.

Mundane questions can certainly inprire one to think about how a chart is viewed.

granny

Depends which kind of charts you are referring to. In horary, if your client asks you about the prospects of winning the lawsuit, he will normally be represented by the first house and its ruler, the enemy is the 7th, ALWAYS.
"The querent who induces the fight" is not always the first...well, in an event chart, yes, he doesn't have to be the attacker. But which moment will you take, then, as the "declaration of war"? As soon as you say "querent" we're into the territory of horary, and we already know how it goes, don't we?
The event charts are in so far different as there's different set of rules to follow if we want to delineate them correctly.