Hi all,

Just thought I'd add in my own thoughts on Jupiter here. My Jupiter is in Pisces, trine Moon in Cancer, and in the 1st house... Sounds great doesn't it, well-dignified and supported by the Moon. And indeed my Jupiter has produced some positive effects; I do consider myself to be quite a lucky person most of the time. However, in the last year or so, with the passage of Jupiter through Capricorn (sextile natal Jupiter and opposing natal Moon), this strongly dignified Jupiter has turned out to be "too much of a good thing". It is well to remember that it is entirely possible for a well-dignified planet to be "too much", and produce negative effects. I'm thankful that my Jupiter is balanced out somewhat by Saturn on the MC. It's a shame Saturn doesn't have more essential dignity - he's peregrine and doesn't always manage to step in and save the day from over-confident, over-indulgent Jupiter!

I think the moral of the story is, any planet can be a positive or negative influence, it just depends upon its dignity and position within the chart as a whole. Just because a planet has buckets of essential dignity doesn't mean it is automatically going to be good for the native!!

Keren

kerenhappuch wrote:Just because a planet has buckets of essential dignity doesn't mean it is automatically going to be good for the native!!

I recently read somewhere, I think it was Demetra George's new book about Hellenistic Astrology, Astrology and the Authentic Self, that it's important to see whether the planet is in-sect or out-of-sect. The in-sect planets belong in the same 'party' than you, the out-of-sect planets work against you. I've heard the sect concept before, but never so concretely. I haven't tested this a lot, but it sounds like an approach worth consideration.

So, if you have a nocturnal birth, Jupiter does not necessarily (always) benefit you. But if you have a diurnal birth, then... well, this theory didn't work.

Papretis,

An interesting point. I've also heard about "sect" but have not as yet actually put it into practise. Would you recommend Demetra George's book as a good source of information on this topic? (Yes mine is a nocturnal chart!)

Keren

Hi Keren,

I cannot answer, because I lent the book out to a friend before I read it through myself! It's still on its way (but not once and for all - I'll get it back).

Hello Keren,
here is an excerpt from Night & Day by Robert Hand:
.....we would expect Jupiter to be diurnal because it too is a symbol of knowledge and awareness. It is hard to read a book in the dark! Therefore, we would expect Jupiter at night to be less effective. Jupiter in a nocturnal chart or placed nocturnally does not lose its efficacy according to the ancient writers. But it does lose the ability to withstand an affliction by malefic. When Jupiter is out of sect and afflicted, almost all of its virtue is lost, according to ancients. The mechanism of this is not clear.

I hope it helps,
Trojan

Trojan, that's an interesting quote. Thanks for the info. Does that book include more information on sect, as it would apply to the other planets?

Going back to the initial post in the thread, is this Jupiter in a nocturnal chart?

I don't know about the original post, but I was born at night, which puts Jupiter out-of-sect. And likely why Venus ended up my almuten figuris, as that's my other planet with a lot of essential dignity - but it's not afflicted, and in sect - as well as dispositing Jupiter.

[quote="kerenhappuch"]Trojan, that's an interesting quote. Thanks for the info. Does that book include more information on sect, as it would apply to the other planets?

Yes Keren,
there`s a section called "General Natures of the Planets According to Sect".
R. Hand says that the principles discussed in this section are still tentative and should be taken only as a guidelines for research.
I`ve found this booklet (68 pages) very useful. Highly recommended!

Best wishes,
Trojan

How would you expect a retrograde, debilitated Jupiter in 29 Cap, posited in 6th, lord of 5th & 8th, opposite Venus to behave?

Looking back over my life, I'm unaware of any significantly challenging Jupiter effects or any beneficial effects either. It's been more of dud than anything negative or positive. Maybe I'm just not looking at the right times or at the right parts of my life for Jupiterian effects. Any suggestions regarding what to look for?

I do recall this one incident. About 5 years ago, I had a relocation consultation from a noted relocation astrologer. He recommend Kuai as my best possible location because it sits right on my Jupiter/MC line. For some reason, hearing that made me shudder! I couldn't imagine living under any of my Jupiter lines with Jupiter being in the condition described in paragraph one. I then consulted with another relocation expert who told me that the only way he'd recommend that I live in Kuai is if God came down from heaven and personally escorted me there....otherwise, stay away from Kuai. You're Jupiter could pose some real problems, said he. That felt like a more accurrate assessment to me. But all too frequently, my experience has not paralled the expectaions/predictions/evaluations of astrologers and/or the books. So it is difficult for me to have confidence in astrological pronouncements, even though I've been studying it for more than 40 years

How would you expect a retrograde, debilitated Jupiter in 29 Cap, posited in 6th, lord of 5th & 8th, opposite Venus to behave?

This is exactly why I think the traditional approach comes up trumps over modern astrology. Yes Jupiter is generically the 'greater benefic'.

However there are many possible factors that might diminish its effect in a nativity. For example:

-Jupiter in its detriment or fall
-Jupiter without essential dignity (peregrine)
-Jupiter in a cadent house
-Jupiter combust , in the beams or opposing the Sun
-Jupiter out of sect
-Jupiter disposited by a malefic (esp if malefic is debilitated by sign or peregrine)
-Jupiter in conjunction or aspect to a malefic (Saturn/Mars-esp if malefic debilitated/or peregrine)
-Jupiter conjunct or aspeciting any other debilitated planet
-Jupiter conjunct the South Node
-Jupiter conjunct a malefic fixed star
-Jupiter retrograde
-Jupiter is slow in motion

Clearly every chart must be assessed in context. A debilitated Jupiter is not going to deliver that much by transit. As always a transit needs the support of 'natal promise' in the birth chart to take effect.

Moreover as Yuzuru pointed out earlier transits dont necessarily indicate anything happening by themselves. They are only triggers that activate if other indicators in the chart such as the Solar return support this.

Recently transiting Jupiter was in Capricorn. Not a Jupiter able to deliver much in its sign of fall and disposited by a peregrine Saturn. Jupiter has moved out of its fall into Aquarius. Thats an improvement. However, its still disposited by that Saturn. Only when it enters its sign of rulership in Pisces can we really expect Jupiter to be able to perform like we hope. However if you dont have the natal promise of a good Jupiter even that will not make as much difference.

Its interesting to look at the credit crunch in this way. Jupiter is the natural significator of wealth and things go badly wrong with Jupiter in Capricorn. We can only hope things improve as it moves into Pisces and Saturn moves into its exaltation in Libra in the early new year.

For some people its other planets that really deliver the goods for them. For example a strongly placed Saturn by sign, house position , sect etc can be the real powerhouse of their chart and its the Saturn transits that bring them results rather than those of Jupiter.

In my experience its usually people with Saturn in Capricorn, Libra or Aquarius , in an angular house, in sect who are the instigators of astro chats about how Saturn is really our friend and teacher. Those with Saturn in Cancer, Leo, or Aries, in a cadent house, out of sect and retrograde just listen in total disbelief following their last mauling in a Saturn transit!

I have also noticed that a transiting Jupiter doesn't always bring good things. In December, when the transiting Jupiter was exactly conjunct my natal Moon at 28 Capricorn, the guy I was dating (and falling hard for) broke up with me... Of course, my natal moon is in its detriment and Jupiter is my ruling planet, so maybe that's it?

Hi, I just now read this thread, and then read the latest Visual Astrology Newslettre (from Bernadette Brady) and then came back here because this might also explain "Jovial Malfunctioning"...
Bernadette mentions the "Nibiru-phase" of Jupiter: when Jupiter near dawn seems to go and culminate ("rip the sky"!) but before he can do that, is obliterated by the light of the Rising Sun: this means that Jupiter cannot fulfill his promise, and so the voyage should become more important than reaching the goal in life.
In the newslettre is explained how to check if you have a Nibiru-Jupiter in your chart: turn your chart so that the Sun is placed about 8-10? under the ascendant; if Jupiter then is in the 10th house, going towards culmination, you have it.
I don't have data for BB's site but I am sure you can find it by googling on her name or on Visual Astrology Newsletter. All of them are archived so if you want to read it you can find it there!