Yah, that's what i thought, they're actually angular!

Olivia wrote:And once in a great while the question behind the question really is "does he love me?"

Or at least that happened to me once and I was the one who was asking.

.

I've seen a similar situation recently- the Querent wanted to know if she and her husband would go on a planned trip to Russia this winter! I asked if it were maybe a question of financial nature (will we have enough money to go there?) and she said- No! My husband's familly is pretty well-off and we've got some savings and we've already paid for the trip! I asked if there was anything that might represent an obstacle that she had in mind (his job, familly issues, health issues ) , she said:"No! I don't think I can think of anything at the moment!". Does she think he might change his mind (fear of flight, cutting down the expences, losing the interest ), again:"No! He was actually the one who suggested that we should go!" She just wanted to know if everything was going to be as planned.

Well, the truth is- her marriage has been going through a vrey shaky period. and it wasn't her husband who initiated the fights and instability either. She is in love with a younger man! Not only was she asking if her marriage would survive until winter but she actually wanted to know if she wouldl still want to be married to him in January! Will i still love him (or do i still love him) and, probably, will he still love me too!?

There's a lot going on in this chart, but on top of the sequence of aspect perfection, and do notice that the Sun (men generally) falls in 3 EXACTLY conjunct the South Node.

3 is neighbours, so this looks to be a fair description of the dreamy guy, too - high dignity, and while the querent's significator isn't combust, it's still under the beams - enough to make her 'weak at the knees' so to speak.

But - South Node conjunct Sun means nothing good will come of it. It'll turn out actively bad, in fact.

Besides, there's all kinds of things happening - Moon sextiles Venus and then opposes Jupiter. I take the Moon to be the engine - the thing that moves events along - more than the co-significator, though in romance horaries yes, co-significators can go nuts.

But I'm not liking this bloke for you - South Node, bad stuff, and I do think that Sun placement describes him. I'm also not liking the upcoming Moon/Jupiter opp. If the Moon/Venus sextile brings you together, I think the opposition and the Sun/South Node conjunction in 3 will make you wish you hadn't done it.

Best advice: Give up on him or WAIT. There's still stuff you don't know, but it'll come clearer, I think.

Olivia wrote: But I'm not liking this bloke for you - South Node, bad stuff, and I do think that Sun placement describes him.

Yes, there is something unattractive in his description, isn't it so?! He is maybe handsome or a magnet for women in some other way and probably very much aware of that fact (Sun dignified in his own sign)! But his ruler is in the detriment of his Sun, he is retrograde and conjunct Neptune. Even the Pluto is inside his derived first. I wouldn't be surprised if something bad has happened to him recently because I'm not sure he is really happy at the moment. But if these placements are descriptive of his nature, I'm not sure he is really the deadliest catch!!

No, I really amn't liking him, nor the way Jupiter is in the Sun's detriment - ugh ugh and again I say ugh.

Often oppositions can be aspects of almost blinding clarity - so I say wait and see what that Jupiter/Moon opp reveals - you may well end up with more of his story and decide you don't want him after all.

Oppositions can bring perfection, but I've never seen one that actually brought happiness along with it. It's kind of like you get the person or thing you thought you wanted, and then wish you'd never got it.

There are more fish in the sea - and in your first house!

aglaya and Olivia - thank you SO much for the warning. I wasn't thinking of pursuing anything other than a smile or a hello, but this is the definer for me. I will wait back and let the truth unfold. I can't tell you how thankful I am!! I promise to report back with the outcome too.

Olivia wrote: There are more fish in the sea - and in your first house!

Where? And should I buy some worms??

Use fishing nets- you'll catch more fish!

aglaya wrote:Use fishing nets- you'll catch more fish!

LOL! How about fish net stockings? I got those.

Freedom, as soon as possible I'll try to answer all your questions!

aglaya wrote:

johannes susato wrote:..... Mercury (you) and Jupiter (him) because both are beyond their moiety of orbs and there is a lack of mutual reception between both.

the main significator are actually receivibg each other in their triplicities which is a good reception, they're not peregrine and thought they're cadent, I just noticed that Freedom has decided to use equal houses system; it would be interesting to see their placements in Regio.

Aglaya, you are right of course: There is a strong mutual reception between Mercury and Jupiter by triplicities - and in addition to that Mercury ist received in the face of Jupiter! Sorry and thank you!
But both significators are out of orbs according to the oppsition.

johannes susato wrote:
But there is an (hopefully not mentioned before!) aspect-like translation of light between Mercury and Jupiter. The Moon just separates of her conjunction with Mercuy and gives Mercury's virtue to Venus when reaching her by sextile in three degrees and about sixteen minutes. Within four degrees and some minutes Venus perfects her trine to Jupiter and finally translates the light of Mercury to him and thus she contacts you and the "dreamy guy".

In my opinion the intervening opposition of the Moon to Jupiter does not corrupt this last translation because the Moon is the co significator of the querent and hence no third party.Johannes

aglaya wrote:I'm also not sure if we could examine this Venus as a translator or even a Collector of light.
While I do agree that the Moon should not be examined as a prohibitor as She is the co-ruler, including a fourth planet (Moon from Mercury to Venus and then Venus from Moon to Juputer) would be a strange rolling translation (formation) that I'm not sure I've come across in any of the traditional sources so far. Furthermore- I'm not sure that this Venus can act as a translator any way;, in order for a planet to be a good translator it should be swifter than either of the significators, in a separating aspect with one of them and immediately applying to the other one (or we should have a slower planet that both significators are applying to in order to have a Collector) while here we have a Venus that is slower thamn mercury and faster than Jupiter; she is applying to L7 while L1 is applying to her and, finally, she will perfect the aspect with L7 first (and wil meet L1 only after that). So, both aspects are yet to take place and, from that standpoint, I more inclined to see her as a prohibitoer than a collector or translator .

I quote a classical authority and a coeval author:

This way is for example mentioned by Ibn-Ezra, The Beginning of Wisdom (Epstein-Translation), p. 120 f:
"The second way [of transferring the light] is, when a light planet joins one heavier than itself, then the middle one tranfers the light of the lighter planet to the latter heavy one."

And by Frawley on page 92 in The HoraryTextbook.

In our question the light Planet is the Moon, havier than her is Venus, and she being the middle one tranfers the light of the lighter Moon to the latter heavy one: Jupiter.
I only augmented this by the Moon her being in separation from Mercury and so carrying already his light too. But this augmentation is not necessary at all. It's just fascinating that both significators of the querent (Moon and Mercury) had met just before the question.

From my point of view the fact is important that both mainsignificators (or if you dont follow the addition of Mercury, then only the Moon as cosignificator) is connected to the significator of the quesited not only by mutual reception but also by translation of light perfected by good aspects within orbs.

According to your discovery of Freedom choosing equal houses: I didn't notice them being there either. But that Freedom had choosen them and we all didn't notice this before long is the reason why I stick to these equal houses.

Johannes

Hi, Johannes!

Thank you for the quotes, the Ibn'Ezra's approach is quite interesting. I wasn't, of course, questioning your approach )) , I was actually hoping to hear what made you use that "rolling" formation as a possible indicator of multiple, mutually connected, activities or influences. Thanks for sharing that!


And as for the rest- well, I guess that the fact that the planets are still out of the orb and that there's some sort of interference (be it a positive or a negative sign) is a double blade here and, after reading both of your posts and going through my notes again I guess we're back to the beginning- is it a "YES or NO" question or a question about some general tendencies in which case- your explanation from the last post could be very descriptive of some future events (and I generally must agree that the fact that both significators are aspecting the same planet does, in a way, bring that planet into the picture regardless of whether we examine it as a Collector, Translator or simply an outer, if not inner, influence- it's there and applying to all relevant significators!)

Also, I'm aware that in some cases, Frawley's approach would suggest that a planet applying to one of the significators first and then applying to the second one could act as a link between the significators. It does make one a bit dizzy as it would traditionally be an example of prohibition but I'm very keen to believe that the situation is hardly the same if such planet continnues its journey towards the second significator as when it moves on to meet a completely different planet or is afterwords VOC. Because, in a way, it does establish some sort of a connection.

Thanks for the quotes, anyway, it is something to think about!

Freedom wrote:

aglaya wrote:Use fishing nets- you'll catch more fish!

LOL! How about fish net stockings? I got those.

Freedom wrote:

johannes susato wrote: As mentioned in the comments above, there is no aspect perfecting between Mercury (you) and Jupiter (him) because both are beyond their moiety of orbs and there is a lack of mutual reception between both.

Could this be because of events? Meaning: perhaps because we've never formally met? We only say hello in passing, so there is no connection there? Just wondering aloud here...

Hi Freedom,
in horary it is necessary, to give a Yes or No to any question. To judge if there is a Yes or No to be given, you have to look for the perfection of an good aspect of the significators of the querent and the quesited after the question not troubled by any intervening Aspect. The 'perfection' of the perfection of the aspect would be strong mutual reception. This is a very rough advice only.

Freedom wrote:

johannes susato wrote:But there is an (hopefully not mentioned before!) aspect-like translation of light between Mercury and Jupiter. The Moon just separates of her conjunction with Mercuy and gives Mercury's virtue to Venus when reaching her by sextile in three degrees and about sixteen minutes. Within four degrees and some minutes Venus perfects her trine to Jupiter and finally translates the light of Mercury to him and thus she contacts you and the "dreamy guy".

Does this translate to a conversation, dating, relationship? Is is possible to tell what the connection is at all? I don't know much about horary to know this.

In my opinion this is a Yes to your question: He is or can or - most probaly: - will be attracted by you.

Freedom wrote:

johannes susato wrote:Nevertheless this might be a hint perhaps that you should not contact your "dreamy guy" at the beginning by yourself, but by a third person signified by Venus. She being Lady of the fifth (i.e. the third of the third) this could be your neighbour's sister or brother - even if your "dreamy guy" in your question as the possible subject of your love he is your neighbour too. On the other hand the helping person could be a brother or sister of another neighbour or simply a friend of the Jupiter-man (the fifth as the eleventh of the seventh).
Furthermore, Venus is Lady of the twelfth and of the part of fortune too. So, why shouldn't you try to make her, who already dwells in your house, the Ascendant, your successful postillion d'amour (the fifth house beeing that of ambassadors also) and yourself happy?

Johannes, are you saying Part of Fortune is in 12 H type-man? Sorry I'm confused about this last point.

If you reread the two paragraphs again and together it will help you, I hope. What I want to say is, that in my opinion the chart advises you not to go too straightforward, but to act a little hidden and cautious (part of fortune in 12) and very probably the best by the help of a third person as I tried to describe in the first paragraph just above. Venus in Gemini - a with charm communicating human being perhaps . . .

Hope, this helps a little? If you miss some answer ask again please.

Johannes