Eddy wrote: Although it seems dry stuff I love astronomy (that's then a point we disagree on Margherita ).

I was sure you were the right man to explain this stuff of planets....
And it's not exact I don't love astronomy, it's I don't understand it, the old story of the fox and grapes )

margherita

Gjiada wrote:And it's not exact I don't love astronomy, it's I don't understand it, the old story of the fox and grapes )

margherita

Once you've tasted the grapes of astronomy you can't stop eating , that's how it went with me.

Tanit333 wrote:I did also wonder at the Sun's speed too though (for example, I have a "slow" Sun), not just the varying speed of the planets along the elliptic.

The Sun goes the slowest through the ecliptic when the Earth is furthest away (in 'aphelion' from the Sun). This occurs at about 4 July but changes a little throughout the years, just like the perihelia/aphelia of the other planets change and the perigeum/apogeum of the Moon (also called 'Lilith' in modern astrology, and quite fast, in 8 ? 9 years). The more eccentric the orbit of a planet, the more differences in speed at closest and furthest distance. Venus' orbit is almost circular, Mercury's, Mars' and Pluto's orbits have a large eccentricity. I wonder sometimes if these facts could give a benefic (Venus) respectively malefic Mars) nature. Since I see astrology from a 'natural' or in away physical view, I mean that our 'inner recieving part' of astrology could prefer regularity, because we unconsciously want to be able to rely on these cycles. Some unexpected deviation of this regularity then could make us unsecure and 'signals' this to our mind as 'malefic'.

This makes me think of Kepler how he finally understood the Movement of Mars. http://www.uapress.arizona.edu/onlinebk ... chap01.htm

Kepler wrote:I bring to Your Majesty a noble prisoner whom I have captured in the difficult and wearisome war entered upon under Your auspices. . . . Hitherto, no one had more completely got the better of human inventions; in vain did astronomers prepare everything for the battle; in vain did they draw upon all their resources and put all their troops in the field. Mars, making game of their efforts, destroyed their machines and ruined their experiments; unperturbed, he took refuge in the impenetrable secrecy of his empire, and concealed his masterly progress from the pursuits of the enemy.

For my part, I must, above all, praise the activity and devotion of the valiant captain Tycho Brahe, who, under the auspices of Frederik and Christian, sovereigns of Denmark, and then under the auspices of Your Majesty, every night throughout twenty successive years studied almost without respite all the habits of the enemy, exposing the plans of his campaign and discovering the mysteries of his progress. The observations, which he bequeathed to me, have greatly helped to banish the vague and indefinite fear that one experiences when first confronted by an unknown enemy.

To me this resembles a bit the endeavour of the Babylonians to understand the motion of the Moon, to be able to predict the eclipses and therefore the motions of the planets. This to subsequently to perform the rituals to avoid possible negative effects of the eclipse.

Several years ago I had problems with concentrating before an exam. On a sunday afternoon I started calculating planetary positions with Jean Meeus' book. After this activity I was able to concentrate again. I can imagine that hand calculating the planets' positions takes away some unconscious 'fear' for the unknown and uncontrolable. Such a 'demystification' might even take away the belief in astrology, this is not necessarily so (it didn't occur to Kepler, although he discarded some parts of astrology) but it gives some feeling of control. However perhaps this view may sound a bit too rationalizing or 'physical' to other astrologers who prefer a more symbolic or judicial view.

Oh, so many useful links nd quotes in one place and all of them more or less throwing a better light onto something that has been "bothering" me for quite some time. Of course, not evweryone agrees, obviously, so I believe it'l take time to absorb all the new informations but all of the answers are very, very helpful.

My Ascendant ruler is very slow Mercury. It entered its first station 6 days after I was born and its velocity at the time of my birth was only about 12% of the average. I've spent months trying to find a pattern or anything that would help me draw a unique conclusion but I believe I'm still far from being sure as to how exactly it manifests itself.
If any of you use Progressions as a predictive method, i would be curious to hear how you approach the charts for those years when such planets start regaining their average speed, enter their second statinary phase or turn direct again?

Tracey wrote:my son (13) has Mercury stationery retrograde in Cap and he has major issues with writing and spelling and has to have extra lessons. My daughter on the other hand has stationery direct in Gemini and whilst not a brilliant speller and rushes through her work at breakneck speed at school, writes and spells well and grasps concepts quickly.

I've read on this site that a first station planet is like a sick man taking to his bed, and a second stationing planet is like a man recovered and well rested, so possibly extra powerful. (sorry can't find the reference now) Seems to be contradicting this thread since it isn't moving at all, speed is zero!?

Personally, my natal jupiter is in detriment in gemini. It's also stationing so at a standstill. But I've never felt unlucky. In fact it's stationing direct and in MR with natal mercury putting it in it's terms in 2nd house conj POF.

I do not think that extra powerfull means the planet is in better shape than it would be if direct and in mean/fast motion. Just means the planet will not be going under so much stress as it would if stationary/retrograde.

And what does Jupiter rule in your chart (besides having some relevance to you material acquirements by virtue of accidental position?). Also feeling unluck is just too subjective.

Jupiter is in the 11th house, I do have "lucky" friends, or at least my original peer-group was lucky, financially and in terms of education and they've all done well for themselves. And I get most of my work through word-of-mouth and fortuitous meetings with people who can help me. I call that lucky! I don't think I've ever got a job through replying to an advert. I suppose that the 11th is also income from work. I work freelance and the fees are good. But it's not constant. So I end up with enough, rather than an excess! Not complaining though, I have a lot of freedom in my work and I feel lucky for that. 9-5 and 4 weeks holiday a year is not for me!

Jupiter rules the 9th, pisces and 6th sag in placidus. In equal house and whole signs it's 5th and 8th. Koch is 5th and 9th.
It is also the focal planet of a t-square with saturn in the 9th opposing uranus/pluto conjunction in the 3rd. (placidus)

It's like a man well rested and able to re-enter the fray! It's like a pause to fully consider the new course, with renewed enthusiasm, after a well earned holiday and with all the faculties now fully intact. In fact that is a powerful position to be in.. full of confidence for new plans/paths before anything has hampered those plans. Wish I could find the full reference..

hmm, 6th house sag.. I got every childhood disease going and very badly. I had pneumonia when I was about 10. Since then, I've been healthy, just the odd cold. I think that the work my immune system did through my childhood was actually a benefit in the long run. 9th house, well, I love astrology, I'm a voracious reader/learner and increasingly my spiritual life is very important to me. Done my share of globe trotting. I love horary, I put that done to saturn in the 9th. The structure/rules of that particular form of divination suits me well.

Wish I could find the full reference..

May all your Christmas wishes come true ...

It's from 'The Considerations of Guido Bonatus'. As translated by Henry Coley it reads:

The 26th Consideration is whether the significator be in his second station, that is towards direction; for that signifies also hindrance and evil, which already hath been and is past; yet some say that this second station is as good as direction: but this is only a way of speaking, as when one hath been sick and begins to grow well, we say he is recovered and sound, which is not simply true, but somewhere near it; for as the first station is not so bad as retrogradation, so the second station is not so good as direction.

Merry Christmas to all
Deb

Cheers Deb! Christmas wishes to you too.
Seems my memory over emphasised somewhat. Although he does state "some say" he obviously doesn't believe it himself. I'm going with "some say" on the basis of my experience and Tracey's observation, with the added benefits of MR and rulership well noted.

Another thing- what about essentially well frtiffied only retrograde planets. I saw a chart just the other day (only it is still not rectiffied) where the lord of the Ascendant is retrograde Mars, placed inside the 5th, in the sign of its rulership and its exaltation? How does this "tired man" run then?!

And, of course, Merry Christmans to all of you celebrate it today/tomorrow!

I'm all about context, so I think that you should look at what exactly the retrogradation and said planet means.

For example, take a Saturn as significator of profession, in domicile, inside 9th. That could mean that the person is a history teacher. Now, why is that?

Saturn = old, past (ancient) and 9th means study, learning, university and graduation, formal knowledge. The retrogradation overemphasizes that "look at the past" connection.

Still, in a general, ample way, I think that retrogradation will be a debility, meaning that the planet delivers, but with some hardship. Simple example: I have a pratically stationary Mercury and Venus on my chart, Venus rules my 7th. That slowed my 7th house matters a lot, so my adolescence passed without me having a single flirt. Same goes for my Mercury, it delayed my studies (by my own choice I slacked of long before going to university). Still, when I get to study, I always tend to do very well, cause simply put, I have a Virgo Mercury, so no need to make a lot of effort. Not the same with my peregrine Venus though. So whatever mercurial task I put myself to, I do well, not so with venusian ones.

So, a retrograde planet is a debility affecting time in my opinion, it delays and missguides whatever the planet delivers, be it very good (good essencial dignity and no affliction) mediocre (peregrine) or horrend (debilitated without any help from benefics). Also, it could always be worse (debilitated and afflicted with no help, which is the tragedy of tragedies).

Looking for something else, I found Ibn Ezra'sAphorisms on this site:
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/bow.html

33 The planet, which is in its first station, is like a man who does not know what he will do, and its result is bad: if it is in its second station, it is like a man who expects something and whose hope will not be in vain.
45 If the planet is about to reverse its motion, it forecasts unsuccessful consultation, difficulty, and destruction: if its motion becomes direct, it will better the luck in the matter, its strength, and its uprightness.

Reminded me of this thread so just adding for reference.

PFN, your planets station RX I assume?