Goran, for you and anybody else who might have difficulty in combining the meaning of the two (my) sentences you have quoted: the said tranist of Pluto (that is, its conjunction with the north Moon's node) is not an indication of war, but Pluto is undoubtedly a major force behind wars (for other reasons, some of which I have mentioned and some of which I haven't). I do hope you've got the meaning right now, Goran, and that you'll carry your curiosity to some other thread now because I'm not going to say anything more about that. Have a nice evening

Quote:
Yes Goran, there have been coincidences, true, not just with the discovery of Pluto but with the discovery of Uranus and Neptune too

- meaning...? How can this be justification for the rulerships that were assigned to them?

I'd like to see this thread's discussion pursued without unnecessary cross-wires, so thought I would point out that Ema hasn't given any indication that she supports the rulership of Pluto (rather than Mars) over Scorpio, so would not feel a need to justify them. Ema, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Deb

Ema wrote:Goran, for you and anybody else who might have difficulty in combining the meaning of the two (my) sentences you have quoted: the said tranist of Pluto (that is, its conjunction with the north Moon's node) is not an indication of war, but Pluto is undoubtedly a major force behind wars (for other reasons, some of which I have mentioned and some of which I haven't). I do hope you've got the meaning right now, Goran, and that you'll carry your curiosity to some other thread now because I'm not going to say anything more about that. Have a nice evening

Of course I've got the meaning, long before you posted this response, Ema; your contradicting statements are sufficiently self-explanatory for anybody to see. The last two sentences of this post are particularly revealing - namely, that you don't want (or cannot) to discuss this issue further in a constructive manner - after all, I wanted to broaden this topic, I was looking forward to learning something new, that is why I love this forum so much. Obviously, I was wrong in my expectations in this case...
Well, you know, you shouldn't blame others for finding weak spots in your arguments.
I wish you also a nice evening and a happy New year

True, Deb, and thanks for poiting that out I feel comfortable with the traditional rulerships and there was no mention of them in none of my posts. Goran: if you want to learn something new, you'd better start doing your own research

Ema wrote:True, Deb, and thanks for poiting that out I feel comfortable with the traditional rulerships and there was no mention of them in none of my posts. Goran: if you want to learn something new, you'd better start doing your own research

The best way to learn something new is to exchange opinions with other people practicing astrology and I'm far from being a beginner, if that's what you've intended to imply(if not, I apologize in advance!).
If you wish to make a point on something, than you should also be able to explain your position a bit more elaborately and allow discussion; the way you've just tried to avoid it shows a lack of respect toward someone else's opinion and knowledge.
Greetings,
Goran

Seems like semantic quibbling has infected this thread, which is certainly not conducive to meaningful discussion.

For my part, relative to the outer planets, I consider them as modulations of Saturn (this is my own "insight", never read about this concept in any of the books) I regard Uranus as the "air element" Saturnian modulation, Neptune as "water element" Saturnian modulation and Pluto as the "fire element" Saturnian modulation. I consider the outer planets to be an often important aid in understanding the fuller ramifications of Saturn in a chart, and I personally believe that dogmatically ignoring the outer planets hinders-rather than enhances-our macrocosmic analyses. At the same time I discount many of the "effects"/indications/rulerships that have been assigned to the outer planets.

As I stated above, these are my own ideas: they make sense (TO ME) and they "work" (FOR ME) when I apply them to astrological considerations. By no means do I claim these ideas as "facts", nor do I seek any one else to accept them.

" regard Uranus as the "air element" Saturnian modulation, Neptune as "water element"

This hypothesis was also stated by Sepharial.

How about looking at some of her predictions concerning the past years?

E.g. this one:

Her most shocking prediction was made in 1980. The blind old woman said: ?At the turn of the century, in August of 1999 or 2000, Kursk will be covered with water, and the whole world will be weeping over it.?

Well, luckily there was no need to weep over Kursk that year.

Her most shocking prediction was made in 1980. The blind old woman said: ?At the turn of the century, in August of 1999 or 2000, Kursk will be covered with water, and the whole world will be weeping over it.?

Well, luckily there was no need to weep over Kursk that year.

Hi Lunlumo, incidentally, this prediction was wholly correct, except that it was not the whole world who was weeping over it, only (presumably) a very small part of the world. In August 2000, Russian submarine named Kursk sinked and the whole crew of 118 people (sailors and officers) died. She never said it would be the CITY of Kursk That's one of her predictions, in my opinion, which deserves attention. She's also supposed to have predicted WW II but I don't know what were her exact words.

Hi Ema,
This is doubtless interesting, I have to admit. The problem, however, is that anybody who heard of that prediction couldn't but refer it to the town of Kursk. So would you, so would I have done.
But I certainly do not doubt her abilities, she must have been endowed with most unusual extrasensual talents.
It is interesting that some of her predictions can be likened to what the probably most outstanding German "seer" said: Alois Irlmaier, a Bavarian, who died in the late Fifties. Among others he said that a great part of Europe would fall victim to what he called the "dust death" - might probably be some kind of chemical intoxication. It is definitely out of the question that Irlmeier was an outstanding person, his extrasensual perceptions were proved dozens, if not hundreds of times during his life time.
BUT: he never said WHEN his prophesies might come true, possibly he knew that he was running a risk there.
Kind regards,
LL

Hi, Lunlumo

It is interesting that some of her predictions can be likened to what the probably most outstanding German "seer" said: Alois Irlmaier, a Bavarian, who died in the late Fifties. Among others he said that a great part of Europe would fall victim to what he called the "dust death" - might probably be some kind of chemical intoxication. It is definitely out of the question that Irlmeier was an outstanding person, his extrasensual perceptions were proved dozens, if not hundreds of times during his life time.

I've read a lot about Irlmaier's prophecies, he was indeed an outstanding clairvoyant - there's even a court document testifying to the accuracy of his predictions, as far as I remember. He predicted that the WW III will be initiated by Russia, attacking western Europe along with its Arab(eastern) allies.
Strangely enough, two other German prophets, Erna Stieglitz and the Seer of Waldviertel(Gottfried von Werdenberg) predicted almost the same; Nicolaas Pieter Johannes ?Siener? van Rensburg (August 30, 1862 ? March 11, 1926) was a Boer from the South African Republic whose accurate,stunning prophecies apparently uphold the view held by the Germans.
In any case, a lot of interesting,intriguing stuff

Lunlumo wrote:How about looking at some of her predictions concerning the past years?

E.g. this one:

Her most shocking prediction was made in 1980. The blind old woman said: ?At the turn of the century, in August of 1999 or 2000, Kursk will be covered with water, and the whole world will be weeping over it.?

Well, luckily there was no need to weep over Kursk that year.

That is always the best approach, isn't it!?
Only such informations are almost impossible to find on the Internet which is very strange. or not- past events are what we use for rectification and verification of predictions in Astrology and, from that standpoint, it almost seems as though people are not really interested in thoroughly examining the preciseness of her past predictions or, in better words, her predictions concerning past events. People are always fascinated by the unknown (future) and many of them obviously choose to follow her predictions blindly.
Naturally, there are a few most "spectacular" predictions that are regularly mentioned but are never followed by quotes, her exact words or the time when the predictions were first published or heard and noted . The lists of her correct past predictions commonly include events such as:
-the death of Princess Diana
-the beginning of WW2
-"Prague Spring" in Czechoslovakia in 1968.
-changes in Soviet Union
-Indira Gandhi wins the elections in 1969.
-and, of course- the "Kursk" tragedy, which is probably her most widely known prediction.


But no exact words, unfortunately. Some of the magazines that cover such topics and themes probably do offer extended insights into her work and set more examples but I don't buy such literature and have no access to such articles.

But I did find something interesting that, unfortunately, again doesn't include her exact words, and it's a very short list of her predictions that did not come true:


- 2004. Some animal species will completely disappear (bees go extinct)
- 2007. Russian and Cnhina enter a war, China is now a superpower and one huge part of the Far East does not exist anymore.
-2007. Civil war in Russia


In 1993. she predicted that Soviet Union will be reunited again but I have a strong feeling that this prediction has an exclusively political background as the Communist leaders knew that people tend to believe her so, it could have been an attempt to use her "powers" in order to re-establish the old regime. She also said (in 1994.) that people will find a cure for cancer in 21st century and that the medicine will contain much iron (mineral).
(a Martian medicine?!)

Bulgarian University professor Velichko Dobriyanov, once conducted a study on her work using the method of determining the Telepathic IQ (which i don't know anything about) ; he used 18 interviews with her and 823 recorded (telepathic, they say) messages that she "sent" him:
445 (out of 823) predictions turned out to be correct
228 had double meaning and could be labeled as both correct predictions and mistakes
90 were false.

He also said that her telepathic abilities were very high.

But, having mentioned the influence of the party leaders onto her work, I must say that it would be very interesting to see her Natal chart- it might be a unique example of a person who became very popular through the activities of the 9th house and, naturally, it would offer a better insight into her psychyc abilities, would probably throw a better light onto her connections with politicians and maybe help us understand to what extent her predictions were genuine because, personally, I really do believe that politicians did have alot to do with some of her predictions concernng world events. Such people are ofetn exploited in bad regimes- when everything starts going downhill , a prophet shows up from somewhere predicting that the people should be happy and survive because they will soon be living in one of the most powerful countries in the World. Using a woman well known for her predictions for such purposes in 1990'e and late 80's on Balkans, would have been a Bingo and it does call for caution!