Skyscript Astrology Forum

san wrote:I was just confused that I couldn't find more connections.

I'm very sorry for your loss. As for connections, the most obvious ones to me are probably these:

- Moon to the opposition of Mars by direct motion (primary direction)
- Moon to the square of Mars by converse motion (primary direction, using 'converse' in the traditional sense)
- Saturn in the revolution conjunct directed Moon (= opposite natal Mars)
- Mars in the revolution square directed Moon (= square natal Mars)

There is more, but it depends on whether you use the tropical or sidereal revolution, etc, so I'll leave that aside for now. I'd imagine the Moon transiting opposite natal Mars was a critical point?

Thank you for kindly providing your birth data

Losing a parent is surely one of the worst things that befalls man...


The chart is diurnal, so Venus is the primary significator of your mother - all the more so, as she is also posited in the 10th(mother). Venus is afflicted by a close applying square (within three degrees orb, in the bounds of the same planet Venus which represents a particularly powerful bond!) with contrary to sect/domain Mars who rules the 6th and is posited in the 12th, having authority in the 8th by kingdom. I assume she had suffered from Venus related illness(members of generation/belly?) for some time before she died (fixed signs involved). Mars' maleficence is further exacerbated by its position on malefic Hamal (Mars/Saturn nature).

The solar return Mars happened to land close to Venus and in the natal 10th, the cusp of the solar 5th by Alchabitius (the 5th is the 8th from the 10th, signifying mother's death). Your solar ascendant lands in the natal 5th, reinforcing this particular signification,highlighting Venus.

Another striking detail is that the lot of the mother (17th degree of Capricorn, the 8th house) is "struck" by the relocated solar return's IC (endings/death) to the degree!

By yearly profections, Venus reaches Mars (another repetition of the natal constellation!), lot of mother lands in Aries containing the ominous lot of crisis/injury/illness, handing over its matters to malefic of the sect; Saturn hands over to the Moon in Virgo.
Your profected ascendant also comes to Virgo this year, activating the Moon as the universal significator of mother (combust by the Sun in the solar 4th); Mercury becomes LOY and in your natal chart he's conjunct the lot of mother in the 8th returning to its natal position this year in the solar 4th just a degree away from the lot! This literally signifies you (Mercury) having to do with issues pertaining to mother/death/ending(s)...

Now there are other powerful testimonies, some of them have already been mentioned by others. When I find more time, I'll post a couple of other observations.

Regards,
Goran

@Martin Gansten "I'd imagine the Moon transiting opposite natal Mars was a critical point?"

Yes, the transiting Moon was almost there but we are not sure what time exactly she died because she was alone but we suspected that it was after the midnight. So, she died 30th of November around the midnight. At that time Moon was somewhere at the end of Libra (28degrees I guess)
The weird thing was that I was visiting My mother just the two days before she died because I felt that I need to go there to be with her and also to celebrate a bit her birthday which was on 24th of November (1942).

@ Goran Yes, I had a very strong bond with my mother! I miss her very much!
I try very hard to figure out and to understand her alcohol addiction. Last 2-3 years she forgot everything and was completely lost/confused. Her psychiatrist diagnosed Alzheimer's but I don't believe it because she was to young for it.
She had more pain at her feet she could walk anymore, and she refused to use the toilet and/or pampers. So it was very, very hard to see her going down like that.

From mu own research Sagittarian (or strong Jupiter/Neptune in chart) are the most sensitive for the alcohol addiction. My mother has lost her twin brother at the birth so maybe she felt that pain of loose all her life and try to escape somehow.. don't know. Sorry for writing all this! it is my way of grieving I guess.

From mu own research Sagittarian (or strong Jupiter/Neptune in chart) are the most sensitive for the alcohol addiction.

The sources tell us that alcohol addiction is very much connected to an (corrupted) Mars and/or Venus (ruling all kinds of pleasurable pursuits).
Venus representing your mother is retrograde and ruled by a retrograde Saturn while Mars afflicts her; she receives him as well which means she endorses/accepts his evil influence.

Regards,
Goran

san wrote: I never use the whole sign houses system because I doubt if we then maybe going "to far" ? in our research to prove what happened..

If we want we can always find more than one significant aspect so, we could never predict anything with any certainty.. however thanks for sharing James I learn to look from other points of view as well.

p.s. to be honest don't like my chart when using the whole sign house system.

hi san,

i never read this thread, prior to a few days ago.. when i went back and read the thread before i commented my impression from what you said is you had an intuition on one of your parents and death. this was just my impression. the astro thing you latched onto was the new moon. i think people who are into astrology look for a symbol to make a connection with what they intuit. at any rate i think a focus on the 8th house in a chart can sometimes mean a person have more intuition or psychic type ability to see around corners sometimes. if you don't like whole sign houses - that is fine! i like what they tell me and it has nothing to do with making connections in hindsight to an event. even if you don't relate to the new moon landing in whole sign house 8, the sr saturn/mars square on the midheaven axis is especially relevant. i didn't mention the obvious - saturn rules your midheaven and of course you have a lot of planets in cap and aquarius regardless of what house system that gets used. thanks again for the discussion.

cor scorpii wrote: Another striking detail is that the lot of the mother (17th degree of Capricorn, the 8th house) is "struck" by the relocated solar return's IC (endings/death) to the degree!

i get a relocated ic of 15 cap 36 in the 2013 sr using Nijmegen, Holland.

i like the sr data off the birth location and have been using it instead of relocated data for the last year or so. 2013 solar return gives 23 libra ascendant for the birth location.. sr13 moon is at 23 cap.. natal mercury is at 23 cap.

hi san,
at any rate i think a focus on the 8th house in a chart can sometimes mean a person have more intuition or psychic type ability to see around corners sometimes. if you don't like whole sign houses - that is fine! i like what they tell me and it has nothing to do with making connections in hindsight to an event. even if you don't relate to the new moon landing in whole sign house 8, the sr saturn/mars square on the midheaven axis is especially relevant. i didn't mention the obvious - saturn rules your midheaven and of course you have a lot of planets in cap and aquarius regardless of what house system that gets used. thanks again for the discussion.[/quote]

hi James,

I said that I don't like the whole house system because I do not recognise myself much in it. When I look back to my life until now I do not see much connections. For example as you already mentioned: The lord of the ascendant and the 4th house in whole hoses system Mercury + the Sun land in 8th house. I was never occupied much with "dark" side of life. Instead I moved to Holland which is 9th house thing and find the happiness outside my mother country (4th house lord = Sun) when using Placidus house system.
That's why I can't relate much with whole house system however I do believe/feel that I somehow have a strong intuition (9th house) but not really "psychic type ability" which is 8th house thing.

Thanks for your response.

I said that I don't like the whole house system because I do not recognise myself much in it. When I look back to my life until now I do not see much connections. For example as you already mentioned: The lord of the ascendant and the 4th house in whole hoses system Mercury + the Sun land in 8th house. I was never occupied much with "dark" side of life. Instead I moved to Holland which is 9th house thing and find the happiness outside my mother country (4th house lord = Sun) when using Placidus house system.
That's why I can't relate much with whole house system however I do believe/feel that I somehow have a strong intuition (9th house) but not really "psychic type ability" which is 8th house thing.

The lord of the ascendant in the 8th does not necessarily mean one is "occupied with the dark side of life", it's often a bit more complex than that.

Life abroad can be just as easily 'explained' by lot of fortune in the 9th sign as well as by Venus, lady of lot of spirit [in Libra] in the same sign on the MC.
Moreover, there's a mutual reception (and the relationship by contra-antiscia i.e equal ascension signs) between the lord of the 9th, Saturn [in the 1st] in Gemini and the lord of the ascendant, Mercury in Capricorn. As Saturn aspects only the 9th/Aquarius, he will primarily introduce the 9th sign/house issues.

Regards,
Goran

As it happens, I am going to have Moon conjunct Sun at my next Solar Return as well and I too have been wondering what that means.

The interesting thing about Moon conjunct Sun is that the Part of Fortune is always on the ascendant, wherever the Moon and Sun are in the chart. Seems to me that has to mean something positive.

I like Stellarium's thoughts that a new Moon in such a chart will signify life's changes. Change can be a positive thing in one's life if one takes a positive attitude about it, right? Anyhow, the ground under my life suddenly changed to quicksand recently. (There is a view that the Solar Return chart makes itself felt some months before the birthday, so that is certainly spot on.) And that being the case, I decided to try an experiment.

I remember years ago, Olivia Barclay wanted her book to be a financial success. To ensure this, she flew out to Turkey (I think) for her birthday so Jupiter would be in her second house for her solar return. So, a couple of weeks ago, I decided to see if the same stunt would work for me and I started playing around with my Solar Return chart to see where on this planet Jupiter would be on the cusp of the 2nd.

I pitched up somewhere around the Mediterranean, and seeing that the ruler of the ascendant was near the MC, I altered the latitude and longitude until I got Jupiter on the cusp of the 2nd and Mercury (asc ruler) on the MC. As luck would have it, there is dry land in the form of a Greek island, whose airport has a huge runway, right at that spot.

And, (coming back to the subject), Moon and Sun are going to be conjunct and will form an exact trine to Jupiter. Moon and Sun will be in the 10th house. Next year will most certainly be a new beginning for me in terms of my career and my "image to the world", which seems appropriate. I hope that with the POF on the ascendant, and Jupiter on the 2nd, I can turn that to my advantage, though with Sun and Moon also exactly square the ascendant, it is going to be a struggle and a lot of hard work. No surprise there.

thanks san,

when it comes to natal astrology there are so many different ways to approach it. go with what you like.

regarding the part of fortune.. for anyone who doesn't know this - and i am sure someone can word me out on this if they want - the pof takes the geometric relationship between the sun and moon and imposes it onto the chart from the ascendant.. new moon? - pof conjunct on the ascendant. full moon? - pof conjunct the descendant. and etc. etc.. it ain't rocket science.

it gets flipped around depending on whether it is a day or night chart. in san's 'day' chart the moon is in the solar 9th house and shows up as a 9th sign to the ascendant pof.. in a night chart the relationship is still projected off the ascendant but it looks the reverse as it is now describing the distance from the moon to the sun and projecting that off the ascendant... last quarter moon phase in a night chart will show up as a square to the whole sign 4th house area. first quarter- pof shows up as a 10th whole sign house position..

@Goran
"The lord of the ascendant in the 8th does not necessarily mean one is "occupied with the dark side of life", it's often a bit more complex than that "

Of course the Lord of ascendant in the 8th does not describe that a person is occupied only with "the dark side of life". I just gave an example.

I mean that I know myself very well to know that position of the Sun and the Mercury is in 9th house and not in 8th.

Thanks anyway.

@ James_m
"when it comes to natal astrology there are so many different ways to approach it. go with what you like."

Yes, you are right. I will only add to go with "what you like" , go with what you feel it is true for yourself.

thanks James.

san wrote:@Goran
"The lord of the ascendant in the 8th does not necessarily mean one is "occupied with the dark side of life", it's often a bit more complex than that "

Of course the Lord of ascendant in the 8th does not describe that a person is occupied only with "the dark side of life". I just gave an example.

I mean that I know myself very well to know that position of the Sun and the Mercury is in 9th house and not in 8th.

Thanks anyway.

@ James_m
"when it comes to natal astrology there are so many different ways to approach it. go with what you like."

Yes, you are right. I will only add to go with "what you like" , go with what you feel it is true for yourself.

thanks James.

Well, your temperament, the chart almutem and the ruler(s) of manners/soul as basic building blocks of personality/character haven't been discussed so "knowing yourself very well" (only) in terms of house positions you chance to prefer/feel are true for yourself can hardly be taken as a 'proof' for anything.

Regards,
Goran