I've found an example of the difference between Lahiri and Krishnamurti in Ian Brady's chart. I cannot remember specific examples, but it's differences like this that helped me decide to replace Lahiri with the Krishnamurti ayanamsa.

In Brady's Lahiri chart Jupiter is at 9 Cap 59. This gives a navamsa position of 29 Psc 55, so in that chart Jupiter is trine the Moon at 28 Sco 53. Thus, both Lahiri and F-B give a Jupiter trine Moon in the navamsa chart.

Brady's Krishnamurti Jupiter is at 10 Cap 05. Navamsa Jupiter is at 0 Ari 47. So in this case the very small 5 min 47 seconds difference between Lahiri and Krishnamurti makes an important difference in the navamsa chart. K.S. Krishnamurti adjusted the Lahiri ayanamsa on the basis of extremely precise horary work. Some of these cases are discussed in his books.

Also Jupiter's move to Aries places it with Ketu in the navamsa chart. Ketu can have rather bizarre psychological associations. (See Prash Trivedi's KEY OF LIFE.) And Jupiter is the planet of children.

Software: Solar Fire v. 5.1.2 (2003)

Therese

therese

thanks for your response and supportive comments.. "most effective point" - the degree of the ascendant and by extension the cusp for all the other houses - i agree with this person and it is a bit like whole-sign houses the way i use them anyway.

just to be clear - about the navamsha transit chart - at present t saturn would be at 20 virgo using sidereal fb.. it will stay in virgo for a while, as will t uranus in libra and etc. etc. this book suggests any cross over from the natal to the navamsha transit chart has bearing.. i am not talking transit chart, but navamsha transit chart, which might strike some here as odd. it is one of the novel ideas i took away from his book..

i like and share your attitude about circle charts..

varuna - thanks for sharing. for me this navamsha chart is a 9th harmonic chart. i don't understand why the 9th harmonic would be of relevance for the planets but not for the midheaven, but call me someone who likes to rock the boat and not adhere strictly to tradition.. the idea of not incorporating the midheaven in the navamsha or 9th harmonic makes no sense to me if you do it for the planets.. but then i use the outers too, so i am not following tradition, but still very much curious to know it.

james_m wrote:therese

thanks for your response and supportive comments.. "most effective point" - the degree of the ascendant and by extension the cusp for all the other houses - i agree with this person and it is a bit like whole-sign houses the way i use them anyway.

The difference from whole sign houses is that every moment of time moves the planets closer or further away from the cusps. This is a useful key to note the differences in charts because for each person we'll see the planets that are closest to the equal house cusps.

just to be clear - about the navamsha transit chart - at present t saturn would be at 20 virgo using sidereal fb.. it will stay in virgo for a while, as will t uranus in libra and etc. etc. this book suggests any cross over from the natal to the navamsha transit chart has bearing.. i am not talking transit chart, but navamsha transit chart, which might strike some here as odd. it is one of the novel ideas i took away from his book..

Do you mean that the author suggests that when the navamsa planets conjoin natal navamsa planets or natal rasi planets, these will be significant contacts? I'm not quite understanding what the book says.

So trying to use an example: At this time, yes the F-B Saturn is about 20 Virgo, but the K Saturn is about 29 Virgo. (Lahiri would be about 28 Virgo.)

So what I would suggest as an experiment is to watch the navamsa transiting degrees with two ayanamsas and see when they exactly hit planets in your own rasi or navamsa chart. (I think this is what your are saying?)

I would say, however, if you are relating transiting planets to natal charts that contacts to natal rasi or navamsa planets would have to be close by degree to be effective.

Or are you (or the author...) saying that we'll see the influence of the transiting navamsa as a stand alone influence by sign?

I'm a little confused about what the author is saying.

It would be interesting for those of us who are having this discussion to set up two transiting navamsa charts each day (F-B and L or K) and note exact contacts to our own natal and navamsa planets. Just now I set up the F-B and K current charts, and I see that mean K Rahu is on my rasi Sun degree which is my 9th house lord. Not only have I been feeling very strange mentally (Rahu connects us to the astral), but after a break I've begun long distance (internet) communication again to those in foreign countries. (One meaning of Rahu is foreign lands and contacts.)

F-B Uranus is still in Libra, but is now in the first degree of K Scorpio. Soon it will contact my rasi Mercury at 5 Scorpio.

So we can all watch for exact transiting navamsa contacts to our rasi planets.
Should we also be noting exact transits to our natal navamsa planets?

Something to think about.

Therese

James, I'm recalling a book someone mentioned to me recently by a "Patel." In the book you have, are the chapters reprints of magazine articles? If so, I may have the magazines if the articles are from B.V. Raman's THE ASTROLOGICAL MAGAZINE.

Therese,

Something happened last night. I wanted to explore it in relation to the navamsha positions of transiting planets as you suggested. Will post my thoughts under a New Topic: Navamsha Transit. Feel it would be better not to have two navamsha topics, both of which might develop into something complex, alternating in the same thread.

therese - my response is in bold

Therese Hamilton wrote: Do you mean that the author suggests that when the navamsa planets conjoin natal navamsa planets or natal rasi planets, these will be significant contacts? I'm not quite understanding what the book says.

james gets from his read of patels book what you are trying to do in your quote here below.. take the navamsha transit chart and apply it to the natal chart..

So trying to use an example: At this time, yes the F-B Saturn is about 20 Virgo, but the K Saturn is about 29 Virgo. (Lahiri would be about 28 Virgo.)

So what I would suggest as an experiment is to watch the navamsa transiting degrees with two ayanamsas and see when they exactly hit planets in your own rasi or navamsa chart. (I think this is what your are saying?)

but i am not suggesting this :

I would say, however, if you are relating transiting planets to natal charts that contacts to natal rasi or navamsa planets would have to be close by degree to be effective.

or this :

Or are you (or the author...) saying that we'll see the influence of the transiting navamsa as a stand alone influence by sign?

I'm a little confused about what the author is saying.

you will have to get the book which appears to have many innovative ideas and seems fairly exhaustive.

again, what you say below is what i believe the author is suggesting, so it appears you are indeed getting this idea!!

It would be interesting for those of us who are having this discussion to set up two transiting navamsa charts each day (F-B and L or K) and note exact contacts to our own natal and navamsa planets.


Just now I set up the F-B and K current charts, and I see that mean K Rahu is on my rasi Sun degree which is my 9th house lord. Not only have I been feeling very strange mentally (Rahu connects us to the astral), but after a break I've begun long distance (internet) communication again to those in foreign countries. (One meaning of Rahu is foreign lands and contacts.)

F-B Uranus is still in Libra, but is now in the first degree of K Scorpio. Soon it will contact my rasi Mercury at 5 Scorpio.

So we can all watch for exact transiting navamsa contacts to our rasi planets.
Should we also be noting exact transits to our natal navamsa planets?

therese - i will have to read it again to answer this question immediately above specifically, but i believe it is just transit navamsha to rasi.. it might also include t navamsha to natal navamsha..

Something to think about.

Therese

the book you refer to with articles from the astrological magazine is a different book by patel which i haven't read.. the one i read was navamsha in astrology..

see this page for the 2 books that the author patel has written on the navamsha.
http://www.astroamerica.com/v-patel.html#p34

James wrote:

therese - i will have to read it again to answer this question immediately above specifically, but i believe it is just transit navamsha to rasi.. it might also include t navamsha to natal navamsha..

James, I'll have to reply to your post a little later, but since you are sure that Patel is referring to transit navamsa to Rasi, why don't we stay with that on the new thread that Melissa started? That will keep it simple.

Is it correct that Patel was referring to conjuctions only? I'd say for effective research, we should check for contacts only within two degrees or so, and then keep a list of the exact positions. And this is very difficult for astrologers to do as our minds seem to be ruled by Neptune which does not like precision!

Therese

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Varuna, all of the Krishnamurti books are difficult reading. I believe I read somewhere that his sons wrote the books. The English structure is awful.

The best "book" for studying the Krishnamaurti ayanamsa is to compare the navamsa charts for real people such as we've been doing with Ian Brady. These charts can be checked for overall personality and life pattern as well as for sudden catastrophic events, such as the murder of John F. Kennedy.

Of course for anyone interested in using the KP system in their horary or transit work, then the books have to be studied. Also the KP system insists on the Placidus house system for timing. However, one main KP technique is very useful in judging dasa and bhukti periods and doesn't require Placidus houses. I'll write something about that later. I'll also check the books to see if one is a good introduction.

Oh, also we can watch the start of our dasa and bhukti perionds. K will always be earlier by various amounts of time depending on the length of the planetary periods. I have a Mars-Mercury mutual reception in my natal chart. I'm all for hands on investigation--the practical approach.

Therese

varuna2 wrote:Which of these books would you recommend for investigating the KP ayanamsha? Or are there other ones as well?

Books by Krishnamurti:
Casting the Horoscope
Fundamental Principles of Astrology
Predictive Stellar Astrology
Marriage, Married Life & Children
Transit (Gocharapala Nirnayam)
Horary Astrology

If I may chip in here, as someone who spent the '90s studying KP quite thoroughly: the books you list are, in that order, the so-called Readers of the Krishnamurti system. However, that designation may give the impression of something much more organized and systematic than is the case. The books are, in fact, rather chaotic: largely a jumble of articles originally published in K. S. Krishnamurti's magazine Astrology and Athrishta (the latter word more properly reads ad???a, 'the unseen' = fate), some authored by Krishnamurti himself, others by his students.

The contents reflect both the multiple authorship and the development of KP over time. It's a study both fascinating and exasperating, just as the man behind the system seems to have been both a brilliant astrologer and a, shall we say, controversial character. It doesn't really matter much where you begin; it's a tangled skein, and what you need most to unravel it is patience. Still, it won't hurt to start at the beginning.

Thank you, Martin. Words of wisdom and pretty much my experience with the KP Readers as well as books authored by others.

Therese

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