[quote="damon"]No,see the previous page.MC 10th house rulers, lots and their rulers and to some extent 5th house[/quote]

Ah okay, the sentence following it seemed to separate this from ranking of fame where you say it's only the MC ruler.

I would say that it would be a bit simplistic to say that this is [i]the[/i] traditional way of looking at eminence. I see Mark has linked to another thread though so that one may elucidate the issue better. I didn't read the entire thread through, just flicked through the first page.

I am a jyotishi rather than a Hellenistic astrologer, but I have spent a fair amount of time hanging out with Chris Brennan, Bob Schmidt and Demetra, so I will give this one a whirl.

The problem, Damon, is that you're looking at a limited number of obvious factors rather than the bigger picture. I will pass on Peter Fonda because of the C rating, and I don't know the first thing about Rock Hudson, but I will tackle Monroe because my mother went to junior high school with her so the family always talked about her a lot.

Damon writes:

In all these charts the MC or MC ruler appears in a weak position and the only chart where I see something to make up for that is Marilyn Monroe(Sun in 11 Moon and Jupiter in 7 but far from angle). But would that be enough given her overwhelming fame?
Modern Astrolgers would claim her Venus is responsible for her image of sensuality,but as you can see, its out of sect,in detriment,cadent

First of all, Venus is the ruler of the powerful Tenth, and the Ninth may be cadent but it is "the good decline" and "the house of the God." The ruler of the Tenth in the Ninth is always a good combination. Also, Venus may be in detriment in a Mars sign, but Mars, the dispositor, is in the exaltation sign of Venus, which ought to go a long way to alleviate the detriment. I don't know for sure if mutual reception in between dignities was a Hellenistic doctrine, but the way Antiochus sometimes treats exaltation lords almost like co-rulers implies that this combination is important.

Also, look at the aspects. Using whole sign aspects, Venus is in sextile relationship with the Sun, Moon, Mercury, and Jupiter. Jupiter is a benefic, and although Mercury is a neutral which can become benefic or malefic according to its situation, its position as lord of the House of the Good Daimon in its own sign certainly qualifies it as a benefic in this case, and Venus is also in favorable aspect to both luminaries. So all her aspects are positive.

Finally, Venus is co-present with the Lot of Fortune. This is favorable in itself, but if we follow Valens in using Fortune as an alternate Ascendant, Venus appears in the Ascendant itself, the most powerful position of all.

With all these benefits, then, where does the detriment fit in? Her personal relationships were a mess.

But how could her relationships be a mess with the Moon and Jupiter in the 7th? Jupiter rules the 8th and the Moon rules the 12th, so this is also a combination of the rulers of 8 and 12. Quite a mixed bag. She married famous men like baseball star Joe DiMaggio and Pulitzer prize-winning playwright Arthur Miller, which is the Moon-Jupiter effect, but her relationships with these celebrities were unhappy and even abusive, which is the 8-12 effect. (DiMaggio beat the daylights out of her in a fit of jealous rage after her very public escapade on the subway grate.)

The main thing, in any form of astrology, is to balance and weigh all the factors rather than basing an interpretation on just a few.

Thanks for the points about Monroe.
This rulership thing sometimes baffles me.
I have the 7th lord,jupiter in Aquarius at MC in 9th house. Then venus Mars Sun in capricorn in 8th in WSH.
An astrologer would bet Id wed a girl of status and benefit from her wealth(8th house planets) yet im 51 and I never met a high status girl let alone wed her. This makes no sense to me given that it appears to be a clear cut picture

damon wrote:

Tzadde wrote:Well, what are you trying to say? Do you want to ask something?

i dont see eminence signs in those charts

Some time doing change the destiny means if we are so much hard worker than in that case our astrology get changed...