Graham F wrote:Is using the 12th for "bed pleasures" strictly Indian?

It is, but the ironic thing is that, in the classical texts at least, the phrase (?ayy?-sukha) seems to have nothing to do with sex and everything to do with the literal comfort of one's bed (and perhaps the quality of sleep).

Good morning,

Thanks, Mr Konrad, for the references to the Hellenist Vettius Valens. Controversy abounds about which zodiac(s) he applied, mitigated by the near concurrence of the equal sign Aries with the same-named constellation during his times. From Valens' Anthologies, Book I, it seems at times very difficult if not impossible to ascertain if constellations and / or equal signs were meant. The degree totals per constellation (sign?) are not all 30.

The Lots Mr Konrad mentioned can also be found amongst the 7th topical place ones on page 285 of the Scottish Professor Robert Ramsay Wright's English translation of Shaikh Abu'l Rayhan Muhammad Ibn Ahmad Al-Biruni's The Book of Instruction in the Elements of the Art of Astrology. Of course the results obtained within Al-Biruni's system will differ materially from those in applying a different zodiac.

Which references, if any, to the two Lots can be quoted from Indian astrological sources?

Since there are many astrologies and, except in India, astrology today enjoys no academic protection and standards, i have no fundamental objections to any astrological school, provided it strives to be consistent within its own framework. I am aware that this thread in within the Sidereal section of the forum and respect this context.

However, mixing and matching concepts and techniques amongst various astrological systems add layers of complexities to already dense jungles. For me, an accurate compass and adequate light are required.

Best regards,

lihin

pankajdubey wrote:Normally, saturn gets all the blame for all thins bad.
You are his saviour.

Right, got ya. Happy to help though I feel he does have something to say here being opposed to the Lot and in his fall, I just can't be sure what without a better biography.

lihin wrote:Controversy abounds about which zodiac(s) he applied, mitigated by the near concurrence of the equal sign Aries with the same-named constellation during his times.

I am pretty sure most people accept he used a sidereal zodiac. At least I've never heard any cogent argument that he may have used a tropical zodiac. For example, really big clues that I think can hardly be ignored are: "Aries is by nature watery, with thunder and hail. From its first degree to the equinox, it is stormy, full of hail, windy, destructive." Though I do think that obviously there was clear tropical references as well. I think when it comes to measurement of planetary positions though, he used the sidereal zodiac.

I'm curious what arguments people might make to suggest he used a tropical one though.

Good morning,

Although perhaps interesting, a discussion about which zodiac(s) were used by Vettius Valens would, methinks, be off topic in this thread.

Best regards,

lihin

lihin wrote:Good morning,

Although perhaps interesting, a discussion about which zodiac(s) were used by Vettius Valens would, methinks, be off topic in this thread.

Best regards,

lihin

Why do you want Indian references for Hellenistic lots?

lihin wrote:Good morning,

Although perhaps interesting, a discussion about which zodiac(s) were used by Vettius Valens would, methinks, be off topic in this thread.

Best regards,

lihin

You're right:
http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7341