Skyscript Astrology Forum

Martin Gansten wrote:

Konrad wrote:You will generally know the difference between a depressed Mars managing the year compared to an exalted Venus.

Always assuming we can agree on which signs constitute a planet's fall/depression or exaltations, and on the correct way of determining the main chronocrator(s) of the year...

Profections seem a pretty standard time-lord system for most people, so they are a good bet. And, the radix and return charts allowing, the lord of the profected ASC is a good planet to watch as the year unfolds to time events.

Konrad wrote:Profections seem a pretty standard time-lord system for most people, so they are a good bet. And, the radix and return charts allowing, the lord of the profected ASC is a good planet to watch as the year unfolds to time events.

It's a standard system, but not a stand-alone system (according to most authors, anyway). In my opinion, if a fallen Mars is a major chronocrator by direction and angular/prominent in the current revolution, having Venus ruling the annual profection can do very little, and even less if that Venus is also cadent in the revolution. The problem with examples positing 'all other things being equal' is that things very rarely are; and so when we test techniques (as I agree we should), we don't test them in isolation, but rather as package solutions -- at least that's my view.

Martin Gansten wrote:

Konrad wrote:Profections seem a pretty standard time-lord system for most people, so they are a good bet. And, the radix and return charts allowing, the lord of the profected ASC is a good planet to watch as the year unfolds to time events.

It's a standard system, but not a stand-alone system (according to most authors, anyway). In my opinion, if a fallen Mars is a major chronocrator by direction and angular/prominent in the current revolution, having Venus ruling the annual profection can do very little, and even less if that Venus is also cadent in the revolution. The problem with examples positing 'all other things being equal' is that things very rarely are; and so when we test techniques (as I agree we should), we don't test them in isolation, but rather as package solutions -- at least that's my view.

But having Venus as chrnocator will do something. I don't see it as a distributor=Mars=bad + year lord=Venus=good, but that Venusian themes and events will appear in the native's life, regardless of Mars dominating the year or not. Also, if we have a Venusian event foretold, then it will be Venus who is doing something when the event manifests, and that too is regardless of Mars dominating the year or not. I agree with your main premise though, but that is why I suggest using years when such a configuration does not exist. We can't get isolated instances which would be ideal to test from, but we can pick years where a planet is emphasised throughout the time-lords such as when the bound lord of the directed Hyleg is also the lord of the profected ASC. This sort of thing should make that planet very obvious in the life that year, and thus, it will be easier to test our schemes.

Larxene wrote:

Anyway. both Venus and Mars are in whole sign aspect with the Moon in my chart. Venus and Mercury are averse, and Mars and Mercury are also averse.

Larxene, we would need to know the aspect orbs and whether aspects are forward or backward in the zodiac to judge the strength of Mars and/or Venus influence on the Moon. Also signs of the zodiac do influence planets, if only in a minor way compared to the planets themselves. Planets merely in whole sign aspect may not be effective if the orbs are wide.

I don't know if you would be willing to post the sidereal sign and degree of your Moon, Mars and Venus? We already know that Venus is your sidereal ascendant lord, while Mars is your tropical ascendant lord.

According to Robert Schmidt (ACT Forum, March 2009), the position of the Hellenistic ascendant lord was singled out for special importance in the delineation of the birth chart. So, for example, in cases of SIDS (sudden infant death syndrome) we would expect a badly placed ascendant lord, and conversely a very well placed ascendant lord in the chart of a highly successful and well known person. This type of analysis is very easy to check in zodiac tests.

Averse: Do you mean in opposition? Planets in opposition to the Sun or Moon (or other planets) can be very effective in either psychology or life emphasis.

Konrad wrote:

Interesting that you identify with Saturn more than Jupiter - in my view, Saturn is currently managing Sidereal Sagittarius.

And a strange view that is indeed! This non-traditional view would perhaps come under the rulership of Uranus? Step outside centuries of tradition and find a new way to view rulerships. This is a much more extreme view than suggesting (as I do) that we are seeing genuine sidereal sign traits beneath a simple mathematical conceptual (tropical zodiac) overlay.

Therese Hamilton wrote:Konrad wrote:

Interesting that you identify with Saturn more than Jupiter - in my view, Saturn is currently managing Sidereal Sagittarius.

And a strange view that is indeed! This non-traditional view would perhaps come under the rulership of Uranus? Step outside centuries of tradition and find a new way to view rulerships. This is a much more extreme view than suggesting (as I do) that we are seeing genuine sidereal sign traits beneath a simple mathematical conceptual (tropical zodiac) overlay.

It is not really a new way, but my attempt to see the rulerships as the ancients did. There is no reason I can see that the Sun rules Sidereal Leo, but there is also no reason I can see to measure the signs from the Equinox while ignoring the stars completely. I think you are referencing Uranus rising as I was born? I would see my actions more as a unification of the Tropical and Sidereal measurements; a Venusian act for one with Venus rising.

Konrad wrote:I agree with your main premise though, but that is why I suggest using years when such a configuration does not exist. We can't get isolated instances which would be ideal to test from, but we can pick years where a planet is emphasised throughout the time-lords such as when the bound lord of the directed Hyleg is also the lord of the profected ASC. This sort of thing should make that planet very obvious in the life that year, and thus, it will be easier to test our schemes.

Yes, I see that, and I largely agree. But in order really to test it, I think it would be necessary to make advance predictions (if only to ourselves), along the lines of: 'If this is a Mars-only year, then I expect such-and-such an outcome; if it's a Mars-Venus year, then such-and-such.' In hindsight, it's all too easy to decide that the theme of the year was just the one we're looking for.

But having Venus as chrnocator will do something. I don't see it as a distributor=Mars=bad + year lord=Venus=good, but that Venusian themes and events will appear in the native's life, regardless of Mars dominating the year or not. Also, if we have a Venusian event foretold, then it will be Venus who is doing something when the event manifests, and that too is regardless of Mars dominating the year or not.

I wouldn't say 'regardless'. If I may refer to myself, I had a god-awful year a couple of years ago, with Mars strongly activated by direction and Venus ruling the profection (in the traditional rulership scheme) while being heavily afflicted in the revolution. There was a Venus theme, to be sure: almost every woman in my immediate family circle went through a horrible time that year (for unrelated reasons). But it was very much tied up, I think, with that Mars, who was also harming Venus by a square aspect in the revolution. Had Mars not been a major chronocrator, things would probably have looked different.

Konrad wrote:

I would see my actions more as a unification of the Tropical and Sidereal measurements; a Venusian act for one with Venus rising. Smile

The ascendant is the body. However, aspects to the Moon (Venus and/or Uranus) would bring out the traits of those planets. Venus on the ascendant? Attractive features. Tennis pro Roger Federer has Venus rising (Asc 17 Leo, Venus 24 Leo). But Venus traits don't describe his sport. However, Mars in Gemini on cusp 11 does describe his career in tennis. (Gemini = hands and arms) Venus is the 3rd lord (hands and arms) and angular in the 1st. Thus, a double signature for tennis.

I'm fairly convinced that the (equal) house cusps do represent parts of the body. So we can use the lord of the 3rd for arm and hand related activities. Perhaps also the lungs for singing. Not sure about that yet. Research goes on.

Konrad wrote:

There is no reason I can see that the Sun rules Sidereal Leo.

Examples soon to follow.

Martin Gansten wrote:I wouldn't say 'regardless'. If I may refer to myself, I had a god-awful year a couple of years ago, with Mars strongly activated by direction and Venus ruling the profection (in the traditional rulership scheme) while being heavily afflicted in the revolution. There was a Venus theme, to be sure: almost every woman in my immediate family circle went through a horrible time that year (for unrelated reasons). But it was very much tied up, I think, with that Mars, who was also harming Venus by a square aspect in the revolution. Had Mars not been a major chronocrator, things would probably have looked different.

No, I never meant that Mars wouldn't be felt, but that Venus would be felt somewhere despite Mars dominating the year overall. What were the timings like for your women? Who was triggering those events?

Therese Hamilton wrote:Konrad wrote:

There is no reason I can see that the Sun rules Sidereal Leo.

Examples soon to follow.

Therese, by that I meant that I see no reason theoretically that the Sun rules Sidereal Leo, not that there is no practical evidence.

Federer is a good case. Venus doesn't describe his profession, and you would expect that she would if Sidereal Taurus was ruled by Venus. However, Mercury rules both Spirit and the 10th sign while casting his ray into the sign. He is also the bound lord of both. Tennis seems very Mercurial to me.

Konrad wrote:No, I never meant that Mars wouldn't be felt, but that Venus would be felt somewhere despite Mars dominating the year overall. What were the timings like for your women? Who was triggering those events?

Sorry, I haven't the dates for those separate events (or chains of events) handy or fresh in memory. I doubt there would be a single trigger for them all, though.

But it might be objected that the Venus theme was due not to Venus ruling the profection, but rather to Mars being configured with Venus in the revolution; and that is sort of my point: it's well-nigh impossible to isolate astrological factors completely.