Skyscript Astrology Forum

Martin, as you know, Valens was a self-described compiler (Riley transl.,p. 66). Different sections of his work give different information.

On p. 28 of the Riley translation, I don't see parents-- which VV does give as you indicate in Round Two on p. 30.We get another rendition in book 9 (p.153) which includes a turned (derived) house method. Here he calls the 4th house the "place of parents." In some charts he set the Part of Fortune equal to the ascendant, and then numbered the houses in sequence after it.

I calculated some of Valens's horoscopes, using a modification of Neugebauer and Van Hoesen's Greek Horoscopes data. I couldn't get the charts to work out unless I used whole signs but in book V (p. 105) VV was clearly aware of unequal house horoscopes. And-- by a close reading of Valens's horoscope delineations, you can see the more nuanced meanings that he assigned to the houses.

For example in p. 105, we get the turned 9th house as indicating foreign travel. On p. 29, he says of the 5th house, "many theorems."

I guess the question is whether you are looking for particular delineations in Valens, or whether you want an overall view of him as an author and astrologer.

(to be continued)

Martin, you asked in your OP, "is this list, or elements of it, found elsewhere in the Greek astrological corpus, or only in Valens?"

Certainly elements of this list are found in Hellenistic astrology and in demotic (Greek-influenced Egyptian) horoscopes found in archaeological records.

From Otto Neugebauer, 1943. "Demotic Horoscopes," J. of the American Oriental Society 63: 115-127. (Summarized in Robert Powell, 1996 "History of the Houses," if you've got a copy of that.)

His dating is somewhat opaque (to me) since he has to juggle different calender systems extant at the time, but he has 4 horoscopes dated to the first half of the first century CE. I can go into the house names in more detail if you are interested, but most seem simply to refer to their position in the chart (like left or east) and the Duat (Egyptian afterlife) and Lake of the Sky (MC, 10th house,) but 3 houses refer to the second as "the house of provision of life.)

Ostracon #3 (18 CE), however, adds to this list (where "part" indicates house):

1. (ascendant)
2. "house of provision of life"
3. "the part of the brother"
4. "the part of the father"
5. """ the child"
6. (unknown)
7. "the part of the fate"
8. "the house of provision of death"
9. "the part of god"
10. "the house of the goddess"
11. "Psais" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shai essentially "good daemon"
12. "The evil spirit"

The Wikipedia link gives some of the history of the Egyptian god Shai (Psais in Greek,) who initially personified fate, then came to mean good fortune.

The origin of houses was probably in Hellenized Egypt: a good source is Greenbaum and Ross, 2010, "The Role of Egypt in the Development of the Horoscope". http://www.academia.edu/7370462/The_Rol ... _Horoscope

So far as I can determine, there was a lot of variety in the meanings of different houses as they initially developed.

"God" for the 9th also appears in Manilius (1st century AD, the Latin poet)who has the first literary reference to houses, so far as I know. He gives:

1. "horoscope",life, character, childhood, station in life
2. Typhon (Evil weather spirit, whence our term "typhoon.")
3. Brothers, the moon, goddess
4. wealth from underground sources, fathers, elderly
5. uncertainty, "Daemonie", health, warfare
6. misery, hard work
7. End of life and events, "portal of [god] Pluto"
8. Typhon
9. God
10. honours, power fame, marriage
11. hope, good fortune
12. misery, toil

Dorotheus (ca. 25-75 CE, I've got the Pingree translation,) has a lot on houses, but you kind of have to read his planets-in-houses to see how he interprets them. Also, he was heavily glossed by a Muslim translator. He lists the strength of houses (angularity, &c.) The house of the fathers here is also the 4th.

Of course, Ptolemy had hardly any use for houses, and doesn't even mention most of them.

waybread wrote:Martin, you asked in your OP, "is this list, or elements of it, found elsewhere in the Greek astrological corpus, or only in Valens?"
........

The origin of houses was probably in Hellenized Egypt: a good source is Greenbaum and Ross, 2010, "The Role of Egypt in the Development of the Horoscope". http://www.academia.edu/7370462/The_Rol ... _Horoscope

So far as I can determine, there was a lot of variety in the meanings of different houses as they initially developed.

"God" for the 9th also appears in Manilius (1st century AD, the Latin poet)who has the first literary reference to houses, so far as I know. He gives:

1. "horoscope",life, character, childhood, station in life
2. Typhon (Evil weather spirit, whence our term "typhoon.")
3. Brothers, the moon, goddess
4. wealth from underground sources, fathers, elderly
5. uncertainty, "Daemonie", health, warfare
6. misery, hard work
7. End of life and events, "portal of [god] Pluto"
8. Typhon
9. God
10. honours, power fame, marriage
11. hope, good fortune
12. misery, toil

Dorotheus (ca. 25-75 CE, I've got the Pingree translation,) has a lot on houses, but you kind of have to read his planets-in-houses to see how he interprets them. Also, he was heavily glossed by a Muslim translator. He lists the strength of houses (angularity, &c.) The house of the fathers here is also the 4th.

Of course, Ptolemy had hardly any use for houses, and doesn't even mention most of them.

I have highlighted the interesting bits.
Elsewhere someone asked about the 2nd and 7th houses being Maraka houses(Killing houses) in Indian Astrology.

Manilus gives it away.
Alexander invaded India in 326 BC and Seleucus was only defeated by the Mauryans in 303 BC.The whole of Northern part of India at that time was under Greek influence. To look for Indian and Greek correspondences it is the Manilus or those who proceeded him will be much more informative.