Hi ModWasp, thanks for responding.

The Worlds End chart (if I can call it that!) is a good example.

5th Campanus cusp 7 degrees Capricorn (I know there are minutes and seconds but I?ll simplify it for the purposes of the example)

Pluto is 19 Capricorn, its antiscia is 10 Sagittarius and the IC is 9 Sagittarius.

So the MC/IC is 9 Gemini/Sagittarius and this will move forwards to 10 Sagittarius.

We now have both the 5th cusp and the MC moving to the antiscion of Pluto! My query in the last post was which one we should consider.

Geometrically the circle will always create an aspect between the Ascendant, MC and 5th cusp (dependant on how wide your orbs are!).

With this geometry, most other house systems will make aspects between these 3 points, to the extent that if they are directed by primary motion they will reach the same point, be it an antiscion or planet. This doesn?t happen all the time, as I?m sure readers will appreciate, but it does happen sufficiently for it to be relevant to consider.

This then allows the question, why Campanus and not another house system! There are no issues about the meaning of the 5th cusp but the importance of the angles is not easily dismissed either.

I thought that as similar horses kept coming up for the angles and the 5th cusp at both Cheltenham and Aintree that this was worthy of comment.

Going back to the Worlds End Chart, Mars is at 20 Taurus and its antiscion is 9 Leo.
The 5th cusp is 9?20 and antiscion Mars is 9?36.

I believe I?ve acknowledged previously that the 5th cusp on maiden/novice races seems relevant, possibly because there is not the same competition between jockeys/trainers and there is possibly more focus on seeing how the horse performs early in its career.

John,

Interesting post, i'll do my bestest to answer you questions, but it won't all be in a single post.

This then allows the question, why Campanus and not another house system! There are no issues about the meaning of the 5th cusp but the importance of the angles is not easily dismissed either.

I think that the main argument for Campanus houses is that it's the method in which the 3 Dimensional view of space can be set for the time and location of the event in question, the meridian of the event. In my opinion, this makes the chart much easier on the eye. As it's emphasis is on the prime vertical - literally, the circle in front of you - and it's right angles in relation to the position of the point set for the chart - the race in this instance - which then passes through the east and west points of the horizon, as well as, effectively, the MC and IC, according to the location at which the chart is set. In other words, it divides in sky into houses according to the location, making it easier to determine the position of any given heavenly body and it's relationship to the angles and other points, at that particular moment and at that particular location. In my view, it's the most logical system to use for horse racing, because the "Moment of Astrology" happens or at least should happen, if the char is judged correctly, at the meridian, or the point for which the chart is set, in other words. I'd recommend Geoffrey Cornelius's book of the same name, for further reading.

In short, it's a 'point' or meridian centred system - ideal for racing, because the chart is, theoretically at least, set for that particular moment in time at that particular location.

I

believe I?ve acknowledged previously that the 5th cusp on maiden/novice races seems relevant, possibly because there is not the same competition between jockeys/trainers and there is possibly more focus on seeing how the horse performs early in its career.

It's the horse that wins the race, not the jockey or the trainer. Otherwise AP would have won the National every year for the last 20. And who was the real champion? Tom Queally, Sir Henry Cecil or Frankel? It seems a little peculiar to me that a race horse could be considered third most important factor in a horse race!

5th Campanus cusp 7 degrees Capricorn (I know there are minutes and seconds but I?ll simplify it for the purposes of the example)

Pluto is 19 Capricorn, its antiscia is 10 Sagittarius and the IC is 9 Sagittarius.

So the MC/IC is 9 Gemini/Sagittarius and this will move forwards to 10 Sagittarius.

We now have both the 5th cusp and the MC moving to the antiscion of Pluto! My query in the last post was which one we should consider.

Conjoined to an angle is an extra testimony, for sure. But it's not the only one. I have literally 100's of charts in which the winning significator is nowhere near any of the angles. Of course, it's always a bonus when it happens.

JAM is more than just looking at the first aspect: I take into consideration all manner of factors;- House placement, rulership, aspects to other planets, term etc...

Hi ModWasp, thanks for the detailed replies.

My focus is encouraging all astrologers, whatever their areas of interest or techniques used.
Hopefully the threads over the last few weeks may interest others enough to enquire a little more into sports astrology- who knows!

There are a number of techniques out there which I?ve worked with at Cheltenham and Aintree, hopefully this will let anyone who wants to try it out can see what some of the various options are and what the level of success (or near misses) have been.

Whatever anyone wants to consider important, be it horoscopes of individuals, information from an event chart (for example Moon on an angle in a feminine sign for the Grand National and female owners and a female trainer winning) or the name of a person/animal/object, then good to luck to all.

I?m not concerned with advocating one method over another, for those that do, well, great also.

If there is future interest in other racing festivals on this forum, I?d be happy enough to join in again.

Hi John

Sorry for the late reply. I've been traversing the country all week and haven't always had internet connection.

I was interested in your reply to my reply of your comment!

Geometrically the circle will always create an aspect between the Ascendant, MC and 5th cusp (dependant on how wide your orbs are!).

With this geometry, most other house systems will make aspects between these 3 points, to the extent that if they are directed by primary motion they will reach the same point, be it an antiscion or planet. This doesn?t happen all the time, as I?m sure readers will appreciate, but it does happen sufficiently for it to be relevant to consider.

This then allows the question, why Campanus and not another house system! There are no issues about the meaning of the 5th cusp but the importance of the angles is not easily dismissed either.

I thought that as similar horses kept coming up for the angles and the 5th cusp at both Cheltenham and Aintree that this was worthy of comment.

Hopefully, I explained the virtues of Campanus systems as well as i could! I'd be interested to know what your own thoughts on house systems for this discipline of astrology is? And why, for example, do you think that angles have more importance over other house systems?

Thanks.

MW

Hi MW

On the spectrum of academic to practical astrology, you will find me on the practical end.
There are plenty of people who have expressed reasons why one house system should be preferred over another and I?m not in any particular ?camp?. I find reason to use Whole Sign, Placidus, Regiomontanus, Alcabitius and Campanus.

I take the view that angles are more important than cusps, so will always consider angles ahead of cusps.

As I?ve said in one of these threads, we still use the 5th cusp Campanus.