I've just read Mark's locked thread predicting HC victory... So I'm going to reply here, having in mind Rocko's insight aboutUra trine Jup effect:
It seems contemporary astrologers easily lose themselves in numerous techniques and neglect the basics = obvious...
The same thing happens in the other astro forum from which I was banned until Nov 10th "for writing against HC" (??!! I am not a rude nor stupid person and am even professionally educated how NOT to offend people in writing). Anyhow: people often want something to happen and then look for some sort of "astrological excuse" in various obscure techniques (not saying the same happened to Marc, but it is symptomatic for today's astro community.
(Oh and I do not intend to go back to that other forum as I feel deeply offended by mod's attitude)
Will write more after the kids are in bed

The majority of the astrologers in the two forums I'm familiar with over here in Germany predicted Trump's victory, the last prediction (yesterday afternoon) was based on a horary chart.
I'm certainly NOT going to say there were better astrologers - that would be nonsense.
But I do feel that a number of astrologers fell victim to wishful thinking:
"What must not be will not be."

In case that horary chart might interest you: http://www.astrologisch.eu/t1174f8-Alle ... ml#msg9320

Nov 8, 9:18 Central European Time, Konstanz (Constance),
Clinton being the favourite of the person asking.


LL

Thank Gd for Goigle Trabslate, Lun, thank you for the link, very interesting read

Interesting post Lunlumo.

Otherwise I've moved my post from the locked thread to here and I would just say that in view of what Lunlumo says my comments would mainly apply to those astrologers with English as their first language ! :-

I have been under the impression ( rightly or wrongly) that there were some astrologers who wanted Hillary Clinton to win and then set about proving it astrologically, which is surely the wrong way round.

It happened with at least one astrologer during the UK referendum who was urging everyone to vote Remain and who said he could prove that the Remain camp would win.

Donald Trump is such a hate figure that ,like voters talking to the pollsters, some astrologers may have been reluctant to come out for a Trump win even if they thought they saw it, for fear of going against the general consensus amongst astrologers. Voters keep quiet and so do some astrologers maybe.

There is such a thing as a "shoot the messenger" syndrome which may apply here. Perhaps some felt very reluctant to come forward for fear of being considered a Trump supporter when in fact they might have been trying to be impartial. I know that I felt there to be a very pro Hillary Clinton bias on this thread (some may disagree) and at times it seemed as though there was no other candidate, as though Donald Trump was a complete irrelevance no right minded person could ever vote for.

Similarly those in the UK referendum in June who voted for Brexit were labelled as ill educated and working class. Remain was the vote for right minded people only.

A similar thing happened in the 1992 UK election. Most, if not all astrologers at the time, I clearly remember, were calling a Neil Kinnock Labour win and the rest is history. Voters then dare not declare to the pollsters that they were voting for John Major and maybe astrologers, being only human, felt the same way.

I would just say that I am dismayed for the science of astrology that there seems to have been so much bias and lack of impartiality. This is only my very personal impression and many may disagree. I do not wish to offend anyone.

Amongst the astrologers who predicted success for Trump, siderealists should note the article by Kenneth Bowser - published in May this year.

The 2016 Presidential Election: Does Trump Have a Winning Hand?
https://www.facebook.com/notes/kenneth- ... 141855808/

Bowser explores Trumps chart from the sidereal angle and did not favour Trump personally. Hence I'm picking out a couple of comments to illustrate his judgement, but really recommending those interested to read the piece in full:

"To my surprise and dismay he has what looks, from the point of view of astrological symbolism, like a winning hand."

"Unfortunately, I think he will be elected and that his administration will be a debacle for the reasons that I will cite, but in the near term, his symbolism is remarkably good."

For the record, and perhaps to offer some small comfort to the many U.S. astrologers who predicted a win for Hillary Clinton, as of this morning she appears to be winning the popular vote by a million or more votes according to NBC News. However the electoral college count gave Donald Trump the election. This is similar to what happened in 2000 when Al Gore got the popular vote, but George Bush had the electoral vote.

Naturally (as befitting Trump's prominent Mars) there is already a new clamor among Democrats asking to abolish the electoral college. Ironically, Trump himself has been highly critical of the electoral collage in the past, calling it a "travesty" and a "disaster for a democracy." (6 November 2012)

Yet, without the electoral college, Trump would not be president elect in 2016. This is the blessing of the Moon partile conjunct natal Jupiter in Trump's current solar return as emphasized by siderealist Kenneth Bowser. I had noted the conjunction myself, but didn't give it the emphasis that Kenneth did. Ken Bowser is a crackerjack technician with a great deal of experience. No one can beat him.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/2016-e ... ll-n681701

While the Electoral College vote tally on election night is decisive, the Electoral College was actually designed in the Constitution as a check and balance against a raw popular vote that might be swayed by mob rule. This year it will meet on December 19, "the first Monday after the second Wednesday in December."

I would imagine a .000000001% chance that the Electoral College could actually go for Clinton (who is 280,000 popular votes up nationally;) with a somewhat greater chance (.00001) that the Electoral College might vote for vote for Mike Pence. However, there is a petition now afoot to get them to decline to confirm Trump.

Moreover, at the end of the month, Trump will probably have to stand trial for fraud concerning in his failed Trump University in two class action lawsuits and one NY state Attorney General lawsuit. His lawyers have filled for a delay and Trump believes he will prevail. But Trump is nothing if not the candidate of the unexpected.

All you prognosticators who predicted a Clinton victory-- it's not over till its over.

Waybread wrote:

However, there is a petition now afoot to get them to decline to confirm Trump.

Yes, and there are "He's not my president!" protest groups in a number of cities. Apparently this has never happened after an election before. It wouldn't be a bad idea to check out the January 6 date when electorial votes are read in Congress and certified.

There is the concept of the "faithless elector" that could be applied, a very long shot, of course. On January 6 we do have Pluto with the Sun as the point of the t-square in the Uranus-Jupiter opposition with the Moon just recently separated from Uranus. Sun on January 6 is opposite the USA 4 July 1776 Sun:

22 Gem 44 USA 6:30 PM Sun
22 Sag 27 Sun 6 Jan 2017, 9 AM
23 Sag 08 Pluto 6 Jan 2017, 9 AM

(Krishnamurti degrees since the tropical orbs would be different.)

This thread is very long. It might be interesting to begin a thread to discuss the period leading up to the inauguration. Already on the Solunars forum there has been some discussion on whether the vote might possibly be changed. This may be because so very many astrologers and psychics have seen Hillary Clinton being inaugurated. From many sources we are hearing, "It's not over yet."

waybread wrote:


Moreover, at the end of the month, Trump will probably have to stand trial for fraud concerning in his failed Trump University in two class action lawsuits and one NY state Attorney General lawsuit. His lawyers have filled for a delay and Trump believes he will prevail. But Trump is nothing if not the candidate of the unexpected.

All you prognosticators who predicted a Clinton victory-- it's not over till its over.

When HRC looked like the winner it was said that incumbent presidents were immune to criminal prosecution. If that is so then it is over is it not?

Matthew wrote:

When HRC looked like the winner it was said that incumbent presidents were immune to criminal prosecution. If that is so then it is over is it not?

A front page headline in today's (12 November) San Francisco Chronicle: "Trump facing dozens of suits"

"Presidents can claim legal immunity for official actions they take in office, but not for their earlier conduct."

This is why President Bill Clinton could be sued by Arkansas State employee Paula Jones for allegedly harassing her while he was governor.

More details at SFChronicle.com

i would like to thank the posters who commented on the gilded cage thread before it got up ended and locked... thanks deb for the book recommendation.. i have ordered it. thanks everyone. i had hoped to comment but that option has been taken away..