Therese Hamilton wrote: P. S. AJ, you typed all of that text on a smartphone??!!!

I use speechnotes but have to go back and edit it some. Enunciation has to be pretty spot on though. but I'm not really typing much.

James wrote:

i repeat - the 2 books on navamsha are
charisma of navamsha (composite vedic and nadi approach) - raj kumar.. sagar pub. 2013 first edition
predict with navamsha - v.p.goel. sagar pub...2017.

no mention of other books on navamsha in these 2 books as i recall and definitely not in some organized way like at the front or back of book..

i am going to get the books you mention and am looking forward to reading as much as i can on navamsha... goels book is the best so far.. i have another 2 of his books coming in the mail.. Comprehensive Prediciton by Divisional Charts: An original research work 2012 and Predict With Dashamsha 2017..

Thanks, James. I see that I have the Divisional Chart book in my bookcase, but I haven't been able to spend time with it yet. You are certainly piling on the books in your study of India's astrology! Try not to get "intellectual indigestion!"

therese,

i think this is why astrologers today will pick and choose what they think is of value to them.. one can talk of a discipline, but in fact unless one has a teacher who is guiding them as both you and aj have talked about - this is what autodidacts do.. anyone who suggests this is the wrong way to go are not living in the real world as i see it..

i read a lot.. i also try to apply what ideas i am given in a concrete way to see if they hold value or not.. i remain receptive to ideas, but as aj also pointed out - the curse of shiva - is alive and well with astrologers and i am no exception to this!

i look forward to reading that book on divisional charts by v.p. goel.. he had a lot of interesting things to say in his book on navamsha.. here is a profile on him..
https://jyotish.com/speaker/v-p-goel/

it would seem that both navamsha books are by authors who are schooled in jaimini.. for someone like myself who can't tell the difference between parashara and jaimini it is a bit daunting to know what is what, even thought aj and the book 'light on life' advised against doing both schools... someone like me buying books out of curiousity to know more has no way of knowing what the differences are really.. i mean, i can partly intuit some of it, but probably missing a lot more..

again - the reality is, most folks are not going to be getting a guru to help them know what is what.. i continue to believe there are countless ways of learning and even learning the wrong way can be helpful if a person is persistent and receptive to new ideas and ways of learning about astrology... some might say, well james - your moon is in the wrong nakshatra in late libra or early scorpio ( really late or really early degree - all bad, lol) and it happens to rule your 9th house rasi so you are screwed either way! i find astrological jargon just that... one has to get past the superficial.. to do that is difficult, but if folks think they know something based on the superficial - i don't believe they do.. i would include myself in this too...

how is that for getting off topic? lol! i am presently still reading 300 combinations.. these yogas are interesting.. i can see the rationale for some of them.. as for the navamsha book by goel that i just finished i am going to find a chart to use as an example for the vish navamsha concept that goel talked about... i wanted to use julian assanges chart, but i am a bit leary as their is no confirmed birth cert for it.. 5 minutes on a rasi chart in his instance only changes the ascendant by about 1 degree... but when you take this same chart and change the time 5 minutes for the navamsha is alters the ascendant by about 12 degrees so one can see how critical an accurate birth time is when working with divisional charts..

James wrote:

Again - the reality is, most folks are not going to be getting a guru to help them know what is what.. i continue to believe there are countless ways of learning and even learning the wrong way can be helpful if a person is persistent and receptive to new ideas and ways of learning about astrology.

Traditionally in India a student sat at the feet of a Guru to learn astrology. But these days of the Internet and countless books, articles and videos, I think learning has to be broader than simply having a personal guru. It does help to attend workshops (more than a single lecture) by different teachers if these are available to the student.

I do believe in astrological certification here in the west, which is available in the Tropical community. Otherwise with all the new translations of historical texts, new methods and discoveries, the student is likely to have large blanks in understanding. It's too easy for students to read a few books, watch a few videos and hang out the consulting shingle to attract clients.

For Jyotish there are recognized schools in India, but these are usually geared to a particular type or approach to astrology. I think if I was younger, I might devise a study outline for students, fundamentals first with the best texts followed by specialty studies.

Anyway, the Internet and forums are here, a great place to bring questions. This is the new way of learning along with personal study and reading and attendance at workshops if available.

I wanted to use julian assanges chart, but i am a bit leary as their is no confirmed birth cert for it.. 5 minutes on a rasi chart in his instance only changes the ascendant by about 1 degree... but when you take this same chart and change the time 5 minutes for the navamsha is alters the ascendant by about 12 degrees so one can see how critical an accurate birth time is when working with divisional charts..

For study purposes, it's best to stay with AA rated data. There's not much sense in speculation. We can't really learn that way.

Therese Hamilton wrote:

I wanted to use julian assanges chart, but i am a bit leary as their is no confirmed birth cert for it.. 5 minutes on a rasi chart in his instance only changes the ascendant by about 1 degree... but when you take this same chart and change the time 5 minutes for the navamsha is alters the ascendant by about 12 degrees so one can see how critical an accurate birth time is when working with divisional charts..

For study purposes, it's best to stay with AA rated data. There's not much sense in speculation. We can't really learn that way.

James you are quite right divisional charts (Vargas) are very sensitive to time changes. Only take your analysis up to D-12 even with a documented birth time, unless it has been tested by rectification and some accurate predictions. Beyond D-12, I would only use the position of the lord of the D-chart and the natural significators of the concerned area of life. The time-sensitive ascendant in D-charts could be misleading in the higher divisionals beyond D-12. For example, Bhamsha, the D27 changes every 2-3 minutes.

If you are doing degree comparisons with the D charts then accurate BT is even more critical.

This message moved to Navamsa topic.
http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10502

James, I copied your response, but had to include it in my message as only moderators can move other people's posts. Hope that's O.K.

I typed this message and the next one in my word processor, then posted the messages under the wrong topic, so moved them just now.

thanks therese!

i agree with all that you say - especially the part about conformists and revolutionaries!!

cheers
james

AJ wrote:

If you are doing degree comparisons with the D charts then accurate BT is even more critical.

Which means that divisional charts can be used for rectification, especially the navamsa, such as Queen Elizabeth's navamsa Jupiter comes to the ascendant degree at the zenith (nonagesimal) of her natal chart. I've tested these precise navamsa conjunctions to natal equal cusps, and they seem to work well. (Krishnamurti ayanamsa)

Getting back on track for this topic on the rectification of Megan’s chart, I can give an example of how Archie’s birth time as given links to his mother, but I think it best if after this post to start a new topic on the Khullar system of rectification.

I didn’t know what to do about the difference in seconds of time between Khullar True Astrology software and other programs, so for the time being I decided to stay within the TA program which is very specific about seconds of time. Theoretically, TA should be the most accurate since seconds of time are important in the Khullar system.

In the KP/Khullar systems each house cusp and planet has four divisions: Sign lord, Nakshatra (Star) lord, the Star divided into nine and then that subdivision divided into nine more very small segments of minutes and seconds (sub-sub or SSL for sub-sub lord).

A Khullar rectification principle says that the Ascendant must reflect the Moon’s star lord. For the given clock time of Megan’s birth (4:46 am) according to TS software, Megan’s SSL planet, Rahu, fulfills this requirement since Rahu is in Cancer, and thus reflects the Moon, Megan’s star lord.

For rectification the Khullar system also uses what is called “genitical??? connections between parents and children and brothers and sisters. The Khullar system says that the the SSL lord of the 4th house has to reflect the Mother’s Moon star lord. So if we take Archie’s birth time as given (Asc 18Aries24–-TA software), we look at the 4th cusp. I’m using the equal cusp system, which I can talk more about in a separate topic.

Archie’s 4th cusp SSL lord is Saturn:
(extends from 18Can00'15" to 18Can15'22", about 15 astrological minutes, 1/4th of a degree)

Such small divisions according to Khullar embody the principles of India’s Nadi astrology.

As this 4th house SSL lord planet must reflect his mother’s star lord, the Moon, we move to Megan’s chart. We see that Saturn’s star lord is the Moon, so according to Khullar, this establishes the link of mother and son, and thus helps to pinpoint a valid time of birth:

Archie’s 4th SSL lord is Saturn.
In Megan’s chart, Saturn’s star lord is the Moon (Saturn in Hasta) her Moon’s star lord.

As we wait for AJ's analysis of Megan's chart (possibly Gemini rising?), in the meantime I'll try to start a topic on the Khullar system of rectification. I will say that at the moment Meghan's chart isn't checking out in relation to Archie's (Megan's 5th cusp), so her chart would have to be adjusted somewhat to bring her first child into the picture. This adjustment actually spans late Gemini into 30+ minutes of Cancer.

Therese Hamilton wrote:As we wait for AJ's analysis of Megan's chart (possibly Gemini rising?), in the meantime I'll try to start a topic on the Khullar system of rectification. I will say that at the moment Meghan's chart isn't checking out in relation to Archie's (Megan's 5th cusp), so her chart would have to be adjusted somewhat to bring her first child into the picture. This adjustment actually spans late Gemini into 30+ minutes of Cancer.

Sorry to take so long, but it is a longer article than I first thought and time has been limited lately. I might just post what I have even though it will be unpolished. Have to think about that... maybe better to wait a wee bit more.
Cheers.

AJ, we can wait as long as we know you're working on your article. I also need more time to cross reference Megan's, Harry's and Archie's charts...haven't decided to post more here or on a separate Khullar topic since this topic has meandered here and there and is up to four pages already.