Ouranos wrote:I am working very hard on a new theory: 'converse transits'. And looking 'forward' to have it accepted by the community.

Hello Ouranos,
I hope not to diminish your enthusiasm, but the concept of converse transits is far from new. Converse transits, directions, progressions, and even solar returns have been established concepts for a considerable period.

If you've been following the thread, Martin has brought up that the modern idea of converse primary directions emerged in the 19th century, and it's highly likely that converse transits and similar concepts also originated around that time. Perhaps other members can provide more accurate historical insights into this matter.

Previously, I possessed a book by Alexander Marr that explored prenatal topics. Regrettably, it was misplaced among several valuable books during a move a long time ago. The book was published by the AFA, and I believe it was released in the early 1950s. Additionally, other members might be able to recommend more recent discussions on the topic.

Be Well.

Thanks AJ.
And all along I thought that converse meant the shoes I am wearing!

Previously, I possessed a book by Alexander Marr that thoroughly explored these topics. Regrettably, it was misplaced among several valuable books during a move. The book was published by the AFA, and I believe it was released in the early 1950s

Hello AJ

There is a free download on the net for a work by a student to Alexander Marr; Juan Estradella. In it is some material on 'Converse transits' which they say is not as important as direct transits, working a bit more on the psychological level than the direct one's.

https://juanestadella.com/Predictive_As ... dition.pdf


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About Trump.

People in the Trump orbit seems to be ending up in jail or in deep legal troubles.

One of them is his 'companion' Rudy Guiliani who was stripped of his licence to practice Law as a lawyer.
Now it is reported that he is in deep economic trouble due to legal costs due to several lawsuits ( voting machine lawsuits et,c,...and new upcoming lawsuits).


https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Giuliani,_Rudy

I looked at it some to see some clues about how that is seen astrologically.

The transits are interesting, with transit Uranus ( and nodal eclipse axis last year too In Taurus/Scorpio signs that correspond to his natal 2nd/8th house.)

I might post his chart and invite to exploring more about the 'Fall of the Major of America'.

When his law licence was withdrawn in june 2021 his natal Mercury ruler of his ascendant and MC placed in the 8th house was under heavy pressure from transiting Uranus and a stationary transit saturn in square to mercury.

( I may look to see in the directions or progressions later as well for more and amyone is welcome to give thoughts and views as well of course).

AJ wrote: Previously, I possessed a book by Alexander Marr that explored prenatal topics. Regrettably, it was misplaced among several valuable books during a move a long time ago. The book was published by the AFA, and I believe it was released in the early 1950s. Additionally, other members might be able to recommend more recent discussions on the topic.

Hi AJ, there are a number of Alexander Marr’s books available for download at archive.org in which he speaks of converse directions in a variety of forms.

AJ wrote: Previously, I possessed a book by Alexander Marr that explored prenatal topics. Regrettably, it was misplaced among several valuable books during a move a long time ago. The book was published by the AFA, and I believe it was released in the early 1950s. Additionally, other members might be able to recommend more recent discussions on the topic.

Hi AJ, there are a number of Alexander Marr’s books available for download at archive.org in which he speaks of converse directions in a variety of forms.

Ouranos: Let us know your opinion and findings on converse transits anyway. I would enjoy seeing your post on this.

Janegca: Thanks for the heads up about some of Marr's books at archive.org.

Everyone, Be well.

Ouranos wrote:Question for you Martin
When a planet is retrograde, does it have an influence on the primary motion.
For it appears from Earth that both the promissor and the significator are moving towards each other.

The short answer is no, retrograde secondary motion doesn't affect the primary motion as such. Once the places of the planets (etc.) are fixed at birth, those same points are brought into contact with each other solely by the rotation of the mundane sphere (primary motion).

However, there was a convention among at least some authors that converse directions (in the classical sense) were more relevant for retrograde planets. In the quotation I gave from Morin, I previously included only the most salient points, but here is one part of that section in full:

The second is called converse, or against the succession of the signs, or in the preceding direction, which they use for retrograde planets and for the Part of Fortune. And in this the significator, which follows, moves toward the promittor, which precedes, by the same motion of the primum mobile as the arc of direction exhibits, entirely as in the first direction. Thus in both cases, right or oblique ascensions are taken in the circle of position of the preceding terminus because the following (terminus] moves toward it by the prime motion, and not vice versa. And consequently, since in both there is the same motion of the primum mobile and the same method of finding the arc of direction, it seems that this should not be considered to be a twofold direction, but a single one.

Dizzy yet?

ouranos

pick up a copy of rc davisons book 'the technique of prediction'... read about converse transits and a whole lot more - originally published in 1955..

https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Davison,_Ronald_C.

Martin,

Dizzy yet?

Yes, you sent me at spin in the dryer.
I agree with you that converse in PD is touchy as it is the Earth that creates the movement and unless the Earth changes direction (maybe some day who knows!)
As for other systems of directions (Secondary, Solar Arcs etc) where a 'symbolic view' is always possible for all kind of reasons, converse can make sense.

AJ

Ouranos: Let us know your opinion and findings on converse transits anyway. I would enjoy seeing your post on this.

Not sure if it will be with converse transits but I definitely want to post something on Trump for Jan 2025.
A preliminary analysis of Sun/Kronos for presidential elections does not seem to be in favor of Trump. But I need to investigate further

Gunner Ramer in U.S.A who attends focus groups with Republican voters every week says...
'What Donald Trump has created is a deep distrust of our democratic institutions. He succeeded in creating an environment in which people no longer believe in the FBI, the Department of Justice, or free and fair elections. We saw what happened on January 6, 2021. So the biggest thing is this deep mistrust of our civil institutions that when Donald Trump is indicted people think it's just an example of the establishment or the deep state attacking them, ordinary voters, through Donald Trump.'

And I think this might have to do with Hades and Kronos being in a near conjunction in Cancer, where the Rulebook says 'Poor government. The criminal on a large scale.' A profound mistrust in the institutions worldwide.
It is not a regular cycle. Over the past millenium, there was an opposition in the 3rd Century where the Roman Empire saw a crisis, starting with the assassination of the Roman Emperor Severus Alexander in 235, plunging the empire into a period of economic troubles, barbarian incursions, political upheavals, civil wars, and the split of the Roman Empire. (Wiki)
I am skipping a few centuries here but the 18th Century with a square between Hades and Kronos was called "The Age of Enlightenment," a historical period characterized by a shift away from traditional religious forms of authority and a move towards science and rational thought. The effects of 18th-century enlightenment led to the American Revolutionary War and the French Revolution. (Wiki)

What stands out here is the relationship between Kronos (ruling people) and Hades (baseness, lack of power, difficult circumstances).
The conjunction between both planets will be exact in 2030 at 19 Cancer.

James

Thanks for the recommendation, I will have a look at it.

Major blow to Donald Trump predident candidate yesterday when he lost his licence to do business in New York, as judge ruled fraudulent mishandling of finances.
Faulty valuation of properties in order to secure loans et.c.
www.politico.com
"Trump fraudulently inflated his net worth by up to $2.2 billion, New York judge rules
The ruling is a blow for Trump and his business empire in the run-up to a civil fraud trial."
www.politico.com

Trump have some intreresting things going on in his chart.
*Current Fullmoon sets off his natal 2nd house Neptune ( which is squaring mercury 2nd ruler).
Note this 2nd Neptune was highly activated in progressions and primary directions when he was declaring
bankruptsy in the 90'ies with the Taj Mahal casino.

*October Solar South Node eclipse in 21' Libra in his 2nd house of earning and assets.

In his Tertiary progressions there is a progressed Fullmoon Eclipse in Libra (2nd house) giving upsets in financial sector.

Transits is hard, with a transiting Yod by Neptune and Pluto to his first house Mars. While transiting Saturn is going to station
right opposite his ascendant. In the 7th house of enemies court issues.

Here is Trumps chart with Tertiary progressions on the outside.

Note extraordinary Tertiary progressed Fullmoon eclipse this month in 22' Libra (2nd house).

With Current october Solar eclipse in the sky at 21' Libra ! just a degree away from the tertiary eclipse !

Clearly an interplay with the eclipse in the sky acting in tandem with the Tertiary progressed Eclipse this month in
Trumps chart.

And to round off with the 2023 Solar return.

*Saturn is lord of the year in the 12th house of prosecution and loss, uncertainty and enemies.

* Neptune rising (weakness and unclear circumstances)
This is a factor which point to his natal 2nd house Neptune is activated)
SR Neptune square SR MC.

* Natal 8th house cusp rising with Neptune.
(Financial, loans et,c, and general bad circumstances in a solar return with natal 8th house coming to the
solar return ascendant.)

* Stellium in solar return 2nd house. ( Finances)