Hi Therese - I understand the two sets of dates will be different, and that the dates generated tropically and sidereally will diverge as an individual's age advances. I'm not interested in arguing about the two zodiacs. I'm happy to discuss the issues, but the topic probably needs another thread. I'm sure it's been covered in great detail before on the forum. I will continue to work on the ennead script for Planetdance. The coding is quite simple, and it should be possible for the enneads to be calculated tropically and sidereally for each solar year.

All the best and thanks again. Ed

Astrowanderer wrote:

I will continue to work on the ennead script for Planetdance. The coding is quite simple, and it should be possible for the enneads to be calculated tropically and sidereally for each solar year.

Yes! If you study these charts, please let us know what you discover. In my posts I've illustrated the traditional way of reading these charts in conjunction with the natal chart.

Hi Therese - here is the tropical ennead for 29 Nov 2024, corresponding to your 30 Nov chart. I agree the alignment of angles sidereally is impressive. However, tropically we have KH natal Mars precisely aligned with the ennead MC, constellating her Mars/Jupiter/Neptune t-square. The ennead Moon rising is opposite ennead Uranus, which is closely conjunct (to the degree) KH's natal Jupiter. I agree this cross-chart contact occurs precisely in the sidereal version (as we would expect) but the tropical Moon in the ennead activates the whole complex, along with the alignment with ennead MC. (KH's chart is on the outside; ennead is the inner chart.)




I agree it would an interesting study to compare these charts. The method seems promising to me, whether tropically or sidereally.

Ed

James, today I have some unexpected free time, so I'll respond to your questions which are now buried under many posts! I do appreciate very much that you were able to read through those three posts of Kamala/Trump and the election.

You wrote:

As i don't use the system of sub lords off the nakshatras that you are using, that part is all Greek to me!! i understand the concept, but haven't worked with it... a couple of times it was confusing due this specific principle you are using.

Yes, I can understand why subs can be very confusing. I should explain them briefly which uses the same principle as dividing signs into three decans or the twelve dwads.

Each of the 27 lunar mansions (often referred to as "stars") has a ruling planet, and each lunar mansion is divided into nine, each small division or sub ruled by a planet in the same order as the mansions as they run through the zodiac. So very simply: The mansion lord shows the natal area of emphasis (natal house and lord). The sub (supposedly) shows if the transit will act for good or ill based on the planet in the natal chart.

in your 1117 pm post, you share 2 charts for kamala, but only one for trump... i take it both are the last ennead prior to the jan 20th date, but with kamala you also share a biwheel sharing her relocated chart with the inauguration date.. did you consider a relocated chart for trump to the inauguration date as well?

Yes, I cut out several charts as this is a forum, not a place to write a book. But here is Trump's chart for you to study:




Using lunar mansions/stars and subs, here is how I judged the chart:

(1) Jupiter elevated in the inaugural chart looks great! But it's in the Moon's mansion/star, (12th lord with Ketu in Trump's natal chart), and Saturn's sub, (6th and 7th natal lord in natal 12th). So (in theory) this inaugural Jupiter cannot help Trump. (But the same Moon Star/Saturn sub is great for Kamala Harris.)

(2) Neptune just above cusp 7 is in Saturn star/Saturn sub. Detrimental, not helpful.

(3) Mercury in the degree of the IC/Nadir is in Saturn star/Saturn sub. (Virgo rises in Trump's birthplace ennead: 2 Virgo 39.)

You make an important distinction between neptune in the 2 charts... neptune co rules the 8th in trumps chart and it co rules the 10th in harris's chart.. this distinction seems critical to your read of the charts as when you are reading trumps inauguration chart - january 3rd ennead you mention this - "The chart has double Neptunes from the 1st to the 7th house, not good for political ambitions. Neptune on cusp 7 aspects the MC. and co-rules Trump's natal 8th house."

Whereas when you read harris's chart nov 30th ennead which has a similar set up - neptune in the 7th - you say this - "(3)Neptune on the descendant (co-ruler of the 10th natal house) is a positive influence as it's Harris' natal 10th house lord and is transiting in Jupiter's star and Rahu's sub which is powerful on Harris natal ascendant." in other words the different house rulerships and the sublords really change the dynamic according to this system you are practicing.

Yes, exactly! This is the entire principle that K. S. Krishnamurti supposedly discovered. I say "supposedly" because I'm still researching the enneads and subs. And KSK knew nothing about enneads, except for the solar return. So I am combining western discovered enneads with Krishnamurti's lunar mansion/stars (nakshatras) in the charts I posted.

This leads me to ponder an important duo of planets in kamala harris's chart - moon in aries and mars in cancer - this is a mutual reception or para- i can't remember what it is called in indian astrology... ( parivartana) ... why it is interesting to me is from the vantage point of midpoints.. the moon-mars midpoint is at 1 gemini 12 which is very close to the ascendant degree and nodal axis in harris's chart..

I suspect this midpoint pattern and these 2 planets take on greater importance as a consequence..all of her connections would be under the influence of this combo from the point of view of finding midpoints useful.. as it happens the degree of the nov 30th ennead for harris ascendant axis is exactly square this midpoint as well.. i suspect this particular combo of planets in harris chart has greater importance which is why i wonder how others would interpret this mutual reception dynamic here..

James, this is all very interesting and informative for me since I haven't use midpoints. Thank you! I think it's a very good illustration of how a certain tropical perspective (midpoints , never part of Indian astrology) can be combined with sidereal calculations to bring a greater perspective to astrological analysis.

Astrowanderer, I'm very happy that you are looking at this new discovery, though the principles of interpretation would be different in the two zodiacs. We seem to be living in an age of important astrological discoveries: midpoints, Cosmobiology, Uranian astrology, the Indian Krishnamurti system, etc. It's so complicated now that astrologers have to choose their own area of emphasis for their work. I've printed your chart illustration to look at later as I'm out of time now.

Can you post the Harris and and Trump tropical enneads for the period of the election?

Will do Therese - I will get on to this tomorrow.

Thanks. Ed

Astrowanderer,
I've studied the chart you posted, but does it say anything about timing for prediction which is what return charts all all about? Well, I suppose that depends on how planets are read for prediction. I think perhaps the most helpful contribution from the Fagan school of astrology is the cyclic return chart format which is the one I use in my posts: the natal chart on the inner wheel and the return chart and return chart cusps on the outer wheel.

Is it possible to program this type of wheel in Planetdance? (I think your chart is from Planetdance?) I haven't kept up on what the various newer astrological software can do as I don't use all the different types of directions and progressions. I find it confusing to see the base or natal chart in the outer wheel with the return chart on the inner wheel. But I've seen many return charts in that format.

The two ennead charts that I posted on the Kamala Harris topic were very explicit in describing her current popularity and success due to two Jupiters (natal and ennead) in the ascendant area in the June 19 chart (ennead Moon on the descendant opposing natal Jupiter on the ascendant) and the Moon/Jupiter conjunction near the ascendant in the July 31 chart. I wrote on July 28:

So if I’m reading this ennead correctly (always that question!!), Kamala Harris will be chosen as the presidential candidate for the Democratic party. There is no really open opposition to her bid in this ennead chart.

https://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopi ... 7&start=24

Hi Therese - thanks for your response. My view when I saw the bi-wheel with KH's Mars on the ennead MC so precisely was that that the moment in Oakland ushers in a 40 day period in which KH is perfectly placed to express her Mars in very direct ways in her professional capacity. In charts like this I prefer to see the energy of the moment in the centre (Moon rising, opposing Uranus setting - a radical female energy?), which then constellates in the moment through the MC, bringing KH's t-square (and Mars as focal planet) into sharp relief.

The other charts (displayed tropically, with the ennead in the centre) are shown below:

KH Solar Return 2024 - Election Ennead




Trump - Election Ennead




KH - Inauguration Ennead




Trump - Inauguration Ennead




All the best. Ed

Astrowanderer, thank you very much for these charts, and for the interpretation of Kamala Harris' tropical ennead. It's a different type of interpretation than the sidereal, but that's necessary since the chart is a different point in time. Yes, two enneads with different approaches to analysis and interpretation.

I'm happy to have these tropical enneads for comparison as they illustrate the eastern and western approaches to astrology. India has always been much more predictive of events. It's interesting that western sidereal astrologer Jim Eshelman uses the psychological approach in discussing the possible outcome of the USA election and charts for Trump and Kamala Harris. He's really gone one hundred percent tropical in his work with emphasis on psychology, but with Fagan school sidereal measurements.

Anyway, it's good to have these charts! I'm printing them for reference. Thank you.

You're welcome Therese - I'm making progress with the script for Planetdance. I need to study these charts some more - they are new to me and seem to be very helpful from a predictive point of view.

Best wishes. Ed

James wrote:

This leads me to ponder an important duo of planets in kamala harris's chart - moon in aries and mars in cancer - this is a mutual reception or para- i can't remember what it is called in indian astrology... ( parivartana) ... why it is interesting to me is from the vantage point of midpoints.. the moon-mars midpoint is at 1 gemini 12 which is very close to the ascendant degree and nodal axis in harris's chart..

James, would you believe that I hadn't noted that all important mutual reception of Moon-Mars because the Moon is at the beginning of Aries and Mars is in late Cancer! That goes far to explain Kamala Harris' work as a prosecutor, and the fighting spirit she displayed in her nominee acceptance speech on Thursday evening.

Also one of the previous talks during the evening emphasized that "She will fight for YOU." Also Kamala's Sun is in a mansion of Mars. Her navamsa Mars falls in the 10th (equal ) natal house and sign. And Astrowanderer pointed out her Mars emphasis in the tropical ennead.

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