Although i wish to leave the previous thread section till i get opinions back, i can at least delve further into the roles of our species, male and female.
From our distance of nearly a century, a opinion may be formed that the causes of World war One, and any resistance of stopping it being none-effective, may be due of a squashed depressed female nurturing role expressed by half our species.
We may humbly conclude that it may "Dare i mention" be because of all male behavour, in all male "Clubs" focusing on a few years of our history, and not looking at the nurturing role that is timeless.
I think equal measures of world leadership need to be addressed to create balance....which is nuturing and getting through day to day problems by focus, and concentrating,....the female essence has not had a period to harmonize world events for many thousands of years.
We know ancient cultures didnt have this problem as there was just as many female myth goddesses as there were male gods.
Opinions please!, i have a need to stay in the broad centre of astrological thought!

We can further experience the scapegoat by Christian jealousy and greed to destroy the knights Templar, who hold many secrets that was lost in the burning of the Library of Alexandia.
I wish not to be involved in anarchy, that tears down and loses ancient wisdom, i like to join and give a gentle nudge to enlarge views.
And yes i would like to give a gentle nudge to "The American Supreme Council of the 33* degree".
Sorry guys the days of all male "Clubs" are not where we should be, with the difficulties of the 21 Century.
Although this is a centre of great wisdom, it originated by being a scapegoat and jealousies inflicted by the inquisition, thus excaped to the "Brave New World".
Being a secret order, can give messages that doesn't inspire confidence, and i feel we are in an age that we must be brave, hopefully no one is going to be burned at the stake, like Jacque De Morlay, the last Grand Master of The Knights Templar, but we need to evolve at least to the point of accepting females to the order, and thus give a chance of a female president.
Any Americans that dont hold this view please hit hard this opinion that i have expressed, and could equally be one involving female religious leaders.

First off, I'm only referring to non astrological topics since I firmly beleive that mundane astrology is useless without knowledge and knowledge is impossible without facts.

You echo a moot point I raised. However, the van bomb on the Towers and the one in Kenya IS more what a Terr'ist is capable of. IRA stylee.

Six years ago, prior to 9/11, Israel abandoned its claims on the Lebanon border and pulled back. From that time (year 2000) until the present situation, Hezbollah, a terrorist organization, launched over 800 missiles into Israel from the positons that Israel abaondoned. Missiles, not homemade bombs. It might be comforting to think of terrorists as a group of inebriated thugs like the IRA, but the fact is that Arab terrorists are far more dangerous, far better armed, far better trained than the IRA ever dreamed of becoming.

Right now as these words are writen the best armed group in Lebanon, outside of the Israeli military, is not the Lebanese army, but Hezbollah, a terrorist organization that is using sophisticated weaponry in the battle, not fireworks and bottle rockets.

You don't seriously expect me to believe that they ambushed a full jetliner with diddy plastic forks do you.

They used box cutters (prior to 9/11 I personally boarded an airplne with a box cutter knife. I use them in my work and I was flying to a project. I forgot I had the damn thing with me and only realized it when I went through security. I was mad at myself becuse I had just purchased it and it was more expensive than most. I thought it would be confiscated for sure. They did not take it away), and to prove they meant business they cowed the passengers by slitting the throat of a flight attendant. They did not tell anyone they were crashing the plane into the twin towers. They let them hope for some kind of salvation to avoid what happened on Flight 93.

In order to deny any of this one has to deal with the testimony and evidence against Zacarias Moussaoui, recently convicted of being part of the 9/11 conspiracy. He confessed and after his conviction, recanted. Is he part of the plot or is he a scapegoat who likes to confess to things he nad nothing to do with?

Like that has ever been done before

.

It's been done with less. Airplane hijackings have been accomplished with toy pistols and simple threats. Look up DB Cooper on Google. The fact is, deliberately crashing planes into buildings had never been done before.

Do you seriously expect anyone to believe this was staged when none of the passengers on those four flights ever returned home? Or are they all part of the plot, too?Tom

The original problems can be expressed by damaged souls in our small time period, of course any people that incite or agree with any bombing of ordinary people have massive problems.
but we need to focus to the difficulties of our time, which means any within our collective consciousness that kill need to be subject to a court of law, but a overall need of seeing the problems that have evolved during the last 2000 years is also needed.
Inviting Arabs to sign agreements that promote peace can be mis- interpreted, by cosy chats at "Camp David", which they think is a reference to "The Headquarters that the Knights Templars had on the "Dome of the rock", which is central to masonic desires of excavating the floor plan where "Soloman's Temple was, which would be a shrine!
The trouble is this few acres also is important to Jewish Faith, which as luck would have it, isnt so different from what masons would desire.
The problem lies that we think that Mecca is the spiritual center of all Muslim faiths, which it is, but shares importance with the Al- Walid Ibn Abdul Malik mosque built in the seventh century and the ummayad Caliph Abdul Malik Ibn Marwan Mosque, built at a later date, being the place that is believed Mohamad ascended to heaven. Ironic as religion is, where do you think this sacred place is?
You guessed it, the Dome of The Rock, in Jerusalem, which is the area where Jews also pray, being the surviving wall of "The Temple of Soloman"!!!!!!
As the Arabs have battled the Knights Templars, for about "1,000 years and are old eyeball to eyeball adversaries, who cannot obviously get agreement, and are stuck in a cycle, obviously they need help.
This can be symbolic by the "Oslo Accords Agreement", on the White House Lawn in 1993.
Where the Jews and Arabs shook hands....Very old Adversaries, but who was the mediator?
Bill Clinton was!
Now look up on the net "De Molay".
Afterwards look up the web link hopefully that will work that i am giving now, and you may begin to see the problem.
www.demolay. org/

Got it wrong try this:-
www.nndb.com/org/584/000062398/

Monk
I found that post after mine tear streamingly hilarious. Thank you. I really have enjoyed your posts and you seem to forget that I said that. So I won't pay you a compliment again. Gawd how did Judas get into this debate!? (I know I'm not meant to use an exclamation mark and a question mark together but what the heck I believe I'm allowed to use heck)

Talk about taking the heat out of the sitution.

So I will re-iterate since someone might take offence
I did not get my information from internet sites with spurious research information I got my information from thoroughly investigated Journalism. When I said what I said it was not some slur on anybody. Ok Tom I forgot about the box cutters but my mate reckons the whole lot were assassinated. I must stress that none of these remarks were made in the documentary.
The IRA did infact launch rockets and had the capability. Their's was a more different game. This isn't a game about winning. This at present is about Jihad whereby Muslims are feeling their beliefs are being attacked and thus their religion and way of life is under threat. Islam arose out of a reaction to the Christian Crusades and Jihad was a natural response to that which is why it is perfectly permissable to fight for ones beliefs. It doesn't say one should take ones own life in the process. This is a cunning and modern spin borne more out of desperation than the sophistication of the IRA. The Palestinians could never EVER hope to be as armed as the Israelis that is why they are doing it the way they are doing it. However, someone has sold those arms to them and no prizes for guessing where our low interest rates are coming from.

Note the strongly placed Jupiter on the charts for those attacks.

Hi Skippy,
Be careful, i have no wish to incite problems, we also have masonic orders, and the world has enough problems, if damage is done to all, you will only have the ironic laugh of creating more problems than we have already!

Masonic Orders. Better mind me peas and qs then hadn't I. Wouldn't want me pute going bump in the night.

Skippy please be careful,
I value your comments but now you will lead me down another path to bring all threads back to the centre.
During W.W.1, that is the basis for our present mess, we have to own up to drawing many lines in the sand, that have caused many problems.
I wish that Lawrence of Arabia had been listened to, as apart to areas under dispute within Israel, which needs more careful negotiation, his ideas were trusted by the Arabs in regards to Iraq, etc. was never listened to by the British Government.
He was a leader that actually got on a camel and fought side by side with Arab leaders.
His idea's as expressed by this large region/Persia, were never listened to by Britains leaders, who thought they knew best.
The current problems in Iraq is due to unacceptable merger of Kurds, Shiites etc. that Britain in their wisdom thought would be a good idea to forge into a country, which is a complete disaster!
Now, war develops desperate measures, and Britain, in an effort to win the First World War, wanted all Arabs to rise up against the rule of "The Ottaman Empire", thus promised Arabs in spilling their blood, that these lines in the sand would belong to them.
There are many area's even then that had disputes, so the British Government, promised this land to any different factions that would listen, that this land would be theirs, if they rose up and lost their lives battling against the Turkish Ottoman Empire, which is the basis of why the "British Mandate" never worked, which leads to the conflict of today, so have a care where you point the finger!
A dispute also needs an adversary, and Arabs have to take blame for our present difficulties as well, this is a collective problem that only can be solved looking at the larger picture, without pointing a finger, obviously individuals need to be tried by a court of law, that have taken human life by inciting the deaths of innocent people, but be careful in pointing fingers, as i can point to any group with equal amount of information, thus feel the need overall not to point but help everyone heal this process, by being a small speck of dust in the collective, who really don't want to involve himself, as i am very happy just tinkering with sacred geometry and life form patterns!

Tom: Is Hezbolah an Arab organization? I thought they were Syrian? Clarification please. (While I think Saudi is a big threat, I like to have the organizations properly categorized if possible to try to keep seperate in my head, I dont want to blame the wrong group for something)

Monk: I have to agree with you Monk that the failure of Britain and the US to back the promises made in WWI, is one of the biggest factors in the current mess, BUT, I still think that the mess would be here and as big an issue, just different players if they had done things differently. poverty breeds greed, discontent and Zealots. As long as there is a such a huge part of the people doing without, its going to continue. IMO.

Male/Female, the yin yang principle is clearly demonstrated within Astology, I think you can proceed from there, I doubt any of us would argue with you. And your delineations are quite interesting.

Granny.

Skippy please be careful,
I value your comments but now you will lead me down another path to bring all threads back to the centre.

Really and this has what to do with Juno?

During W.W.1, that is the basis for our present mess, we have to own up to drawing many lines in the sand, that have caused many problems.
I wish that Lawrence of Arabia had been listened to, as apart to areas under dispute within Israel, which needs more careful negotiation, his ideas were trusted by the Arabs in regards to Iraq, etc. was never listened to by the British Government.
He was a leader that actually got on a camel and fought side by side with Arab leaders.
His idea's as expressed by this large region/Persia, were never listened to by Britains leaders, who thought they knew best.

Laurence of Arabia was a spy for the British

The current problems in Iraq is due to unacceptable merger of Kurds, Shiites etc. that Britain in their wisdom thought would be a good idea to forge into a country, which is a complete disaster!

In the former Ottomon Empire the Kurds and the Shiates and the Sunnis lived side by side in Persia. In positive disharmony the way they have since the death of the Prophet Mohammed. There was no Utopia that existed previously or simply because the Allies divvied up the spoils for their own benefits.

Now, war develops desperate measures, and Britain, in an effort to win the First World War, wanted all Arabs to rise up against the rule of "The Ottaman Empire", thus promised Arabs in spilling their blood, that these lines in the sand would belong to them.

That's news to me.

There are many area's even then that had disputes, so the British Government, promised this land to any different factions that would listen, that this land would be theirs, if they rose up and lost their lives battling against the Turkish Ottoman Empire, which is the basis of why the "British Mandate" never worked, which leads to the conflict of today.so have a care where you point the finger!

I suggest you might see it in your own reflection in the mirror.

A dispute also needs an adversary, and Arabs have to take blame for our present difficulties as well, this is a collective problem that only can be solved looking at the larger picture, without pointing a finger, obviously individuals need to be tried by a court of law, that have taken human life by inciting the deaths of innocent people, but be careful in pointing fingers, as i can point to any group with equal amount of information, thus feel the need overall not to point but help everyone heal this process, by being a small speck of dust in the collective, who really don't want to involve himself, as i am very happy just tinkering with sacred geometry and life form patterns!

Apropos the of the fixed star would be deemed pointing it seems.

[quote="granny_skot"]Tom: Is Hezbolah an Arab organization? I thought they were Syrian? Clarification please. (While I think Saudi is a big threat, I like to have the organizations properly categorized if possible to try to keep seperate in my head, I dont want to blame the wrong group for something)

The conflicts in Islam have long reigned and have nothing to do with the Brits whatsoever. At that time the concept of the USA was not even a glint on the horizon either.

Syria is an independent Arab kingdom that contains majority peoples of the African and the Arabian disapora both Sunni, Shia and Sufi Sects. There are also Christians of various ancestory in Syria.

Hezboullah arose in Iran as a resistance movement to the war in Lebananon and was secretly funded by Ayotallah Houmani and other Arab States who follow the Shia tradtion. It is now a multi faceted organisation with links to funding from all over the world. It has legitimate democratic power in Palestine with strong bases that still exist in the Lebanon.