Below is a biwheel with the 1927 chart (inner wheel) and David Cameron's natal chart (outer wheel)
Like Clegg Cameron has the Uranus ?Saturn opposition across the UK Mercury. His ascendant ruler (Venus) is conjunct the UK MC. Cameron's Venus is sextile the UK ASC and Saturn. His Ascendant is also close to the UK MC. Cameron?s POF is close to the UK ascendant and its dispositor (Jupiter) is on the UK POF like Cleggs. Cameron?s ASC/DESC axis is along the UK MC/IC axis and his descendant is in close conjunction to the UK Uranus. Cameron?s MC is conjunct the UK North Node. Cameron?s mercury is square the UK POF. Like Brown Cameron has Moon in Leo. However, neither leader have this close to the UK Moon. However, it is in a close trine to the UK Saturn and Ascendant. Cameron has his Pluto in opposition to the UK Jupiter. Cameron?s Sun is in a broad opposition to the UK Sun while his Neptune is square the UK Moon/Neptune like Clegg. Cameron?s Mars in Leo is sextile the UK Mars.

Lastly. lets take a look at Gordon Brown's links to the 1927 chart. Of course Brown is already Prime Minister so there must be some connection here even if he loses completely on May 6th. However, like his rivals Brown has never been tested by public opinion personally since he succeeded Tony Blair without holding a General election.

Most notably Brown?s MC ruler (Saturn) is conjunct the UK chart MC.

Other connections:

(Mars) Brown?s ascendant ruler conjunct Mercury ( UK Chart)
(Venus) Conjuct Mercury (UK chart)
(Venus) Square Mars (UK chart)
(Venus) sextile Venus ( UK MC ruler)
(Mars) sextile Venus (UK MC ruler)
(Uranus) square MC (UK Chart)
(North Node) conjunct Jupiter (UK Chart)
(Pluto) trine Sun (UK Chart)
(MC) conjunct South Node

I conclude from this that David Cameron and Nick Clegg have charts that are well very integrated into the UK chart. Its really striking that Cameron's Moon is trine the UK Ascendant/Saturn and his ascendant ruler (Venus) is on the UK MC. His ASC/DESC axis along the UK MC/IC looks powerful. If the 1927 chart is valid then it is fair to state Cameron has a strong link to the UK chart which would be consistent with him becoming Prime Minister. However, the question remains one of timing. Is May 6th his time to achieve this?

I will next look at Cameron and Brown's solar return charts (non-precessed!) , secondary progressions and their current transits.

Mark

Deb wrote: The other thing that caught my eye is that the Moon is separating from an opposition of Mars and a square of Sun, so I think there will be a period of controversy which escalates public anger and annoyance just before the election - maybe something to do with all the transport problems and strikes (Moon in 3rd).

This was said BEFORE the flights were grounded!

This was said BEFORE the flights were grounded!

She is very good isn't she? Sometimes I think she is channeling William Lilly

Although to be pedantic I would only award a 1/2 point for that particular one as the threat of airline and national rail strikes have been in the news for the last few weeks so that comment had some existing context.

Mark

PallasAthene wrote:

Deb wrote: The other thing that caught my eye is that the Moon is separating from an opposition of Mars and a square of Sun, so I think there will be a period of controversy which escalates public anger and annoyance just before the election - maybe something to do with all the transport problems and strikes (Moon in 3rd).

This was said BEFORE the flights were grounded!

And I thought it was the psychic ability mentioned on Astrodatabank -> ->

PD

I thought I would start our analysis of the predictive trends for the party leaders from natal data by looking at Solar their Return charts. To be specific Gordon Brown and David Cameron as we do not have accurate data for Nick Clegg.

Before I start doing this I have some comments to make on Solar Return charts as there are a variety of approaches to this kind of technique. I feel its appropriate to define my personal methodology here. I hope this doesn't appear too indulgent. This is simply my personal take on the subject and not an attempt to put down other views.

I will only be using the traditional non-precessed charts. Personally, I feel precessed charts are a muddled confusion of tropical and sidereal astrology. By upholding such a technique tropical astrologers are IMHO inherently conceding there is something implicitly ?wrong? with tropical astrology. I dont hold to this viewpoint.

Another technique one now encounters is ?converse? Solar Return. The idea being that a solar return can be determined by going back in time for the same period in time as the normal SR goes forward in time. The analogy for any predictive conversion technique ( SR, transits, progressions, Solar Arcs) is that of a stone dropped into a pool of water where the ripples ( time) move out in equally in different directions. The mysteries of time and space are still profound. As Neil Spencer recently said to the scientific sceptic Richard Dawkins the workings of astrology are ?a deep dark mystery?. Still , for the purposes of this thread I will keep it simple and use traditional SR charts.

The next issue is whether we relocate a chart or not? Many medieval astrologers only relied on the birthplace location. However, by the renaissance astrologers were starting to experiment with relocated charts. This possibly reflects a changing kind of society where people were much more mobile than in the earlier feudal period which was rigidly socially stratified. In the modern world this mobility is even more pronounced. There are many views on this topic. Some people will jet off to an exotic location for a few days around their birthday with the justification this improves their return chart! Personally, I dont think its that easy to cheat our destiny. However, I do think the issue of basing the chart on our ?home? wherever that might be is important.

So after that rambling theoretical introduction lets get down to practical astrology.....

Looking at Gordon Brown?s SR chart I notice most charts automatically relocate the chart to London where of course the Prime Minister?s official home is located. Equally, Parliament is located at the Palace of Westminster. I have always done the same. However, I was listening to the second of the Party Leaders debates last night and was struck that in a reply Gordon Brown stated his home was in North Queensferry, in Fife, Scotland. I may be mistaken but I dont think the Brown family ever ?moved in? to No 10 Downing Street in the way the Blair family did. If I am correct Brown and his wife and family spend much of their time at their their North Quuensferry home. In fact Brown was married in his North Queensferry home. Brown?s parliamentary constituency of East Dunfermline is close by.

This therefore raises the possibility of another location for Brown?s SR chart. The differences in the charts are intriguing with varying signs on the MC and therefore different ruling planets.

Lets look at the two charts. First Brown?s SR chart relocated to London:
Secondly, the SR chart for Brown?s North Queensferry home.

Hi, Mark

I personally I am not sure if a Solar Return must be used at all or not... after I was analysing Brown?s chart I recall that, by definition, mundane charts are superior than natal charts. So, even if we see a "bright day" in Gordon Brown?s chart, I don?t know if mundane astrology will allow it to be shine...

After saying that, I see mixed signs for Brown. In the Solar return we have moon on the 10th (I use the natal location) squaring the ruler of the 10th. This is not good by any means for his popularity.

But this mars will sextile Saturn (natal ruler of 10th), and moon is sextile sun and jupiter. Jupiter is the ruler of the profection of the MC.

If this was the chart of a client I would say to him that he should expect a year of several conflicts, and maybe enemies trying to cast him out of power, as well as opportunities to shine and rise to power (or keep it).

Yuzuru wrote

I personally I am not sure if a Solar Return must be used at all or not... after I was analysing Brown?s chart I recall that, by definition, mundane charts are superior than natal charts. So, even if we see a "bright day" in Gordon Brown?s chart, I don?t know if mundane astrology will allow it to be shine...

Fair point. Still, we have already discussed mundane charts here so it does not seem inappropriate to discuss this too even if it is lower down the astrological hierarchy. Plus its fun

I have already made my prediction based on the Aries Ingress chart. I will be returning to a couple of older Ingress charts which I think may shed light on this election.

After saying that, I see mixed signs for Brown. In the Solar return we have moon on the 10th (I use the natal location) squaring the ruler of the 10th. This is not good by any means for his popularity.

I should elaborate here that the SR chart for Giffnock also gives an MC for late Aries so Mars is Lord 10 in both this and the North Queensferry SR chart. The Moon is the traditional indicator of the public opinion in mundane affairs. This Moon is exalted and in its degree of exaltation. Nobody expects Brown to win widespread public acclaim. However, this is likely to be the first and only time that Brown stands for the office of PM. This is as good at it gets for him. However, the Moon here is Lord 12. Its easy to come up with a cliche like 'self undoing' or 'hidden enemies'. However, giving this a more positive interpretation this could be benefiting from the secret negotiations required to form a coalition government. On the other hand do we just conclude Mars in the 12th=all washed up? Of course by whole sign Mars is in the first house. Considering Brown's natal Moon-Pluto conjunction its interesting to see the applying Moon-Pluto trine in this chart.

Nobody expects Brown to win widespread public acclaim. However, this is likely to be the first and only time that Brown stands for the office of PM

Yes, it is important to see what Frawley noted one time:

http://www.johnfrawley.com/NotePred.htm

Although the election was a race between B & K, which Bush won and Kerry lost, so far as the unfolding of their lives is concerned, and hence so far as what their birthcharts will show,
* Kerry did not lose; he failed to win
* Bush did not win; he avoided losing.

Unless Kerry runs again and wins, this will be the most successful day of his life. Coming within a state of being US president is some achievement. A few months ago hardly anyone had heard of him; now he was on every TV in the world. We should expect to see some powerful positive testimonies in his chart.

For Bush, the situation has remained as it was. He was president already: we should not expect to find testimonies of triumph in his chart. As long as there are no powerful testimonies of defeat (or of him moving house), he will stay in office.

It is not necessary even to look at Kerry?s chart if Bush?s does not show defeat. No matter how glorious might be the testimonies in Kerry?s, if Bush is still in office Kerry will not become president - any more than glorious testimonies six months after the election would make him president.

Thanks Yuzuru,

Thats a valuable contribution to our discussion. In this context much of the debate amongst modern astrologers seem to hinge on how to interpret the fact that Pluto is currently hovering over Brown's MC. Some see this as a strong testimony of defeat for Brown. Others argue Brown is naturally Plutonic with his natal Pluto-Moon conjunction.

I guess those with a medieval appproach like yourself have a very different take on this with less focus on outer planets.

Mark