Re: Mundane Challenge: The Euro Crisis 37 by daz madrigal Mark wrote:Are you a prognosticator? Are you tired of seeing astrologers describing events retrospectively rather than predicting them? Do you feel you have the ability to predict a major event using your astrological knowledge? Have you seen an event in the news and thought..''I knew that was coming based on chart x?'' If so here is the first of what I will call our mundane challenges! The Challenge question ''Will the Euro currency collapse and if so when?'' Not so much a collapse as a rebirth. Early February 2012. G Mad Daz's Place, quiet but never boring http://pinkmelon.proboards82.com/index.cgi Quote Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:38 am
Mundane Challenge: The Euro Crisis 38 by Michaelb Hi To attempt answer initial question in topic why not apply various LoL -length of life- or durability formulae to the various charts?? Example, 1.1.1958 to 2011 is 53 years, close to Saturn. The 1999 chart to 2011 is 12 years, Jupiter. The 2002 chart is now 9 years, Venus. That also could be Jupiter but a glance at latter two charts do not place either in a position to direct them to the West ala Placidus where, one may add or subtract years to from the arc to the Descendant, i.e., the West. If I remember correctly this was only applicable in quad from Mc to Desc.. 1993 chart is 18 years near Sun 19 years. So then what planets are the giver of years etc., in these EU Euro charts?? What follows, a guess to using Aries Ingress and Conjunction charts. The charts in this example are for Brussels so this is not about indicators for the Euro but for the E.U.. Top wheel is a bi wheel for the Sun in Aries 2000 chart prior to the Jupiter Saturn conjunction May 28 2000 and Profected wheel to 3 20 2011. Also, the Inner wheel is the Sun in Aries chart, the outer are Profected positions to 2011 03 20. It shows yearly Pro Asc to 22+ Aries. Code: Select all[URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/690/suari2000pro.jpg/][img]http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/9726/suari2000pro.jpg[/img][/URL] Uploaded with [URL=http://imageshack.us]ImageShack.us[/URL] The Pro Asc degree is conjunct the most recent Mars Jupiter conjunction, 5 1 2011 04:26 GMT Mars Jupiter give hints to squandering of money, over indulgence, living beyond ones means and in general, trouble through money. Profecting the 22+ Aries Asc by 13 steps method to 2011.11.28 just few days ago gives an Asc 22+Cap placing the Mars Jupiter conjunction in the 10H the most active place and the leaders are busy busy. [code][URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/6/jusamaju.jpg/][img]http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/2218/jusamaju.jpg[/img][/URL] Uploaded with [URL=http://imageshack.us]ImageShack.us[/URL] Chart above, Inner wheel is Mars Jupiter conjunction 5 1 2011, outer wheel is Aries Ingress 2000 just prior to Jupiter Saturn conjunction. This one shows Profected Asc degree at 22+ Aries but planets are not Profected, see first chart above for those positions. The Mars Jupiter Conjunction took place at 22 Aries in the 12H Brussels. Does this show foreign involvement playing a role?? We know the Greeks had help from an American firm to hide facts. What else to notice, Saturn all by his lonesome opposite all the planets in Aries. Moving on, I took the 2011 Aries ingress prior to 2011 Mars Jupiter Conjunction for Brussels - Aries Ingress data >>>> 3 20 2011 23:21 GMT Asc 28Sc39 and Profected the angles forward to October 2011 when things heated up vs. Greece. According to Morinus, moving Profected monthly to date of 2011 10 03 became 28 Gemini - from Scorpio above. This within one degree of 1.1.58 MC. The MC for the 3 20 2011 Aries chart Profected to 2011 10 03 moves from 22 Virgo to 22 Aries the point of the most recent Mars Jupiter Conjunction. These various movements spurring leaders of the E.U., to deal with this matter latter part of October 2011. Note in Mars Jupiter 2011 conjunction chart the Sun is angular and conjunct 1.1.58 charts Moon both 10+ Taurus. 1.1.58 chart not shown in this post. This hints to Sun, the E.U., loosing patience reaching a point, less concerned about the welfare of others who in Suns eyes caused this problem. What was name of Fleetwood Mac song, Go your own way? This a hint ?? to so much talk about survival of E.U., or it?s breakup. Who is leader of E.U.? Appears to be Germany who I am sure long for their D-Mark. How on earth could Germany give up the D-Mark? Now go back to the 2000 Jupiter Saturn conjunction 5 28 2000 around 16:04 GMT for Brussels. The conjunction at 22+Taurus. That chart should give an Asc around 29Li39. The Aries Ingress that year 3 20 2000 07:35 GMT Brussels gives an Asc around 22Ta53. This is a total mess to keep track of. Seems just to many charts to deal with. We really need something like the Hindi systems to get us to the point a lot quicker. Or do any of you know something I dont, please tell me and others, smile smile. Still, it is fun when indicators pop up when and where you would expect them to. I list dates for charts of interest ?? you may put in computer and print out to view. All times are in GMT and Brussels 50n50 4e20 All dates and time taken from Astro.com Ephemeris pages. Aries Ingress 3 20 1957 21:16 GMT Asc around 6Sc26 Cap Ingress 12 22 1957 02:49 GMT Asc around 3Sc16 1.1.1958 E.U or Rome Treaty Brussels. Mr Lunlumo posted this chart earlier in topic. The Aries Ingress 3 20 2000 07:35 GMT Asc around 22Ta53 2000 Jup Sat conj 5 28 2000 16:04 GMT Asc around 29Li39. Full Moon of the Year 2011 3 19 2011 18:11 GMT Asc around 2Li52, Lunation 28Vi48 conjunct 1.1.58 Asc. Aries Ingress 3 20 2011 23:21 GMT Asc around 28Sc39 Mars Jupiter conjunction 5 1 2011 04:26 GMT Asc around 11Ta44 a little past a degree conjunct 1.1.58 Moon. In case you are interested in the money conjunctions Mars Jupiter: Dec 11, 2006 16:11 GMT 3Sg51 Feb 17, 2009 16:27 GMT 10Aq06 May 1, 2011 04:26 GMT 22Ar21 July 22, 2013 07:35 Gmt 5Cn54 Hope I made no typos. A hint to the mess above, also, what I did above, From Appendix 4 in Ramesey mundane book in PDF format on these web pages, Birchfield, editor writes: In Abu Ma?sh?r?s text, we find important elements that are missing from Ramesey?s text. One very important element is that Abu Ma?sh?r is pointing the reader to another ?beginning? chart. One chart Abu Ma?sh?r uses extensively is the chart of the annual Ingress of the Great Conjunctions when they changed from one triplicity to another. His reference to ?ascendant of the religion? is a specific reference to the chart he uses throughout his book; i.e. the chart of the annual Revolution for the year the Great Conjunction shifted to the water triplicity indicating the rise of the Islamic Religion. The ?terminal point of the year? is the profected ascendant of that chart! More important though, and for this reason one has to read his entire book and not take things out of context, is that Abu Ma?sh?r is only referring the reader to use the profected ascendant of some ?beginning chart?. In his case, he was specifically using the chart of the rise of the Islamic Dynasty in his discussions. A beginning chart of some Dynasty, however, is not always the chart of the shift of the Great Conjunction to another triplicity. A ?beginning chart? was any chart of the annual Revolution (or Aries Ingress) of the particular year some new Dynasty began! In the context of the above discussion then, Abu Ma?sh?r says that in the Revolution of the Year of some particular nation or dynasty, if the profected ascendant degree (where 30? = 1 year) of the ?beginning? chart of that nation was conjunct either Venus or Jupiter in the chart of the Yearly Revolution, by aspect or conjunct (by ray), then it was an indication the year would be fruitful and fertile! A practical example of this is let us suppose you were examining the Yearly Revolution for Israel (2006). One would need to look to the ?Beginning chart? for the nation of Israel. That chart, let us also suppose, is the yearly Ingress chart for 1948. The beginning chart has 14? Li 43? as the cusp of the Ascendant. The terminal point (profected Ascendant) in 2006 would then be 14? Cn 43?. If Jupiter or Venus in the 2006 Ingress was conjunct that degree (or within their orbs or rays) or their aspect was to that degree, then we would say it indicates a fruitful, profitable and fertile year. If on the other hand it should fall within the rays of a malefic, then we would say the contrary! It just so happens that a malefic does aspect by degree, the degree of the terminal point in the 2006 annual Ingress; i.e. the Ingress Mercury (dispositor of Mars in the 8th) is 14? Pi 20? in its detriment, fall, and Rx casting its aspect to the profected degree at 14 ?Cn 41?. At the moment, I am writing this, (July 21, 2006), Israel is engaged in a war with Hezbollah in Lebanon which is taking a toll on both sides. In stead of fertility, war is making barren both nations!END More on beginning charts are found in Intro by the Editor at beginning of book or PDF file on these web pages. Book IV ? Astrologia Munda Introduction 1 Introduction by the Editor 1.) The planet is the predominant planet over the Ascendant of some Beginning chart. A ?Beginning? chart was not just any annual Revolution! A ?Beginning? could have been the Ingress in which the Great Conjunction changed triplicities. A ?Beginning? could have been the time that some ruler acceded to the throne of some Dynasty. A ?Beginning? could have been the chart of a lunation just prior to, or just following a specific ingress or when the Sun entered every sign. Another type of ?Beginning? chart was the chart of any particular conjunction at the moment of the conjunction. Not all ?Beginnings? occurred in the Aries ingress so it is quite possible for the Sun to be in any number of signs! END Note on second bi wheel Astrowin I had to jiggle times a bit so they are not same as you find on astro.com or perhaps even on your computer. A - Win is usually a bit slower than most programs. Michael Quote Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:25 pm
Re: Mundane Challenge: The Euro Crisis 39 by Lunlumo daz madrigal wrote: Not so much a collapse as a rebirth. Early February 2012. G Possibly... but: This is based on what? LL Non coerceri maximo, contineri minimo divinum est. Quote Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:20 pm
40 by Andrew Bevan Planets are to turn direct through December; Uranus, Mercury on Tuesday night and then Jupiter towards the end of the month. The lunar eclipse on Saturday - there may be a sell-off, but I am looking for the market to find footing today, Friday, or on firstcoming Monday - with the outside chance of missing with a day or two in wait of Mercury to turn direct, who is the lord of the eclipse. Significant moodchanges in the market were on the previous full-moon and recent solar eclipse. Keydate is on 11-12th Dec. I might explain that the key date is generated from a comparison of previous highs and lows and length of these intervals. In previous work I was using the synodic period of the Moon as a standard to generate these keydates. To cut it short, a solution may be close at hand. Lets hope so, for the festive season and the intermediate future that will get us breathing space and into the middle of January in the least! http://www.astronor.com Quote Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:50 am
Re: Mundane Challenge: The Euro Crisis 41 by daz madrigal Lunlumo wrote:daz madrigal wrote: Not so much a collapse as a rebirth. Early February 2012. G Possibly... but: This is based on what? LL Its would be far better as a test to simply give the date predicted and then explain afterwards...saves time and is far easier to understand when its almost certain that the giver of the correct date knew what he/her was doing. The final #Ura transit across the ASC/DC axis could well deal the last blow to this particular version of the Euro and that the time to look for is when #Ura is at 2#Ari, then quite simply we look for the trigger to ascertain a precise timing. On Feb 8-10, 2012 #Ven conj #Ura whilst #Mar R opposes #Jup. Mad Daz's Place, quiet but never boring http://pinkmelon.proboards82.com/index.cgi Quote Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:45 pm
42 by handn I haven't yet had time to properly digest the various forum postings and at this moment I only have time to flit in and out, but I wanted to quickly add that at the scheduled time of the summit beginning (which was 6:45pm CET --- http://europa.eu/eucalendar/event/id/27 ... standalone) the pre-eclipsed Moon (ruling Cancer rising) was applying to conjoin Algol. The Moon wasn't within orb -- whether applying or separating -- of any of the 'traditional' planets, but it was within orb of applying aspects to Uranus and Neptune. The next 'traditional' planet the Moon would aspect after changing signs was to a retrograde Mercury -- by then its dispositor -- in its detriment. This time of 6:45pm CET is supplemented by a report that the area of Brussels in which the summit was to be held was declared off-limits except to authorised persons from 3pm on 8th December ( http://www.brussels.be/artdet.cfm/5284 ), and there were live updates on various newspaper websites of politicians arriving in the late afternoon/early evening. According to news reports after arriving they had a meeting and then had dinner ( http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/debt ... -2011.html ). There were, no doubt, secret pre-meetings by those who agree with one another in order to finalise their line for the 'real' meetings. Who knows what 'stars' these meetings were held under. Quote Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:01 pm
Re: Mundane Challenge: The Euro Crisis 43 by daz madrigal daz madrigal wrote:Mark wrote:Are you a prognosticator? Are you tired of seeing astrologers describing events retrospectively rather than predicting them? Do you feel you have the ability to predict a major event using your astrological knowledge? Have you seen an event in the news and thought..''I knew that was coming based on chart x?'' If so here is the first of what I will call our mundane challenges! The Challenge question ''Will the Euro currency collapse and if so when?'' Not so much a collapse as a rebirth. Early February 2012. G On 2nd thoughts the triggers aren't strong enough. Amend to.. Feb 2012 - UR OPP ASC Its Aries/Libra and on ASC/DC axis - clashes with partners/ threat of separation/instability- excitable market. That should mark the first sign of real crisis. MARCH 2012 - SA Rx opp SA Natal This will depress the currency even further and result in selling as it slides down in value. The final blow? 2 major planets aspected in the Euro chart (Uranus/Pluto) square Euro Sun during the 2013 summer...Sept seems the cruelest month. Mad Daz's Place, quiet but never boring http://pinkmelon.proboards82.com/index.cgi Quote Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:26 pm
44 by Andrew Bevan On Dec 9. I wrote wrote:Planets are to turn direct through December; Uranus, Mercury on Tuesday night and then Jupiter towards the end of the month. The lunar eclipse on Saturday - there may be a sell-off, but I am looking for the market to find footing today, Friday, or on firstcoming Monday - with the outside chance of missing with a day or two in wait of Mercury to turn direct, who is the lord of the eclipse. Significant moodchanges in the market were on the previous full-moon and recent solar eclipse. Keydate is on 11-12th Dec. I might explain that the key date is generated from a comparison of previous highs and lows and length of these intervals. In previous work I was using the synodic period of the Moon as a standard to generate these keydates. To cut it short, a solution may be close at hand. Lets hope so, for the festive season and the intermediate future that will get us breathing space and into the middle of January in the least! I would like to point out that the market bottomed out and turned up on Wednesday Dec 14. on the day that Mercury turned direct, although the all important factor was probably release on the preceding Friday. The Norwegian markdet, in example, is up 10% from this date, a little excess of 3 weeks - but Xmas including. I would say that the markets have struggled, but seem to have got a good start to the New Year. More than most people expected. I look for this rally to continue for about another 10 days. the Norwegian market will be boosted or maintaned by higher oilprices. I anyone is interested in how much money may be made on such a developement, using the derivat market a position may have been entered at the price of NOK 3,- on Dec 14. that may have been sold for the price of NOK 11,- yesterday (a little back today). But if the price objective is reached, NOK 27,- may be gained by Jan 14. That is a 800% profit. http://www.astronor.com Quote Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:45 pm
45 by skyrack 11.35 European Summer Time Wednesday 15th August 2012. Skyrack Quote Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:01 am
46 by james_m hi skyrack, what is the basis for your time and date of the euro collapse? is it purely based on the mars/saturn conjunction that i have been talking about on the other threads here, or something more opaque? i am curious.. thanks. Quote Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:46 pm
47 by skyrack Hi James, I first looked at this question out of personal interest at the beginning of the year. The conjunction of the malefics certainly seemed then to be a likely portender signalling the ultimate demise of the Euro. I am aware that such conjunctions happen once every couple of years or so, and so from an astrological point of view we likely need to look for other indicators of stress. From an economic point of view the timing seems to be playing itself out. I expect a significant event to occur at or around the time of conjunction. I also expect this event to be later viewed with the benefit of hindsight as the catalyst that ultimately led to the demise of the Euro whether within the space of a few days or a few years. It may just be an escalation of the massive transfer of wealth from the "bailing out" of banks to the "bailing out" of sovereign countries. Whatever form the event manifests as I expect this to be a pivotal moment in the unraveling of the Euro. Others more adept at chart reading may like to ascertain the speed at which this unraveling may occur. My guess is once it starts it will be viciously fast. Skyrack Quote Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:46 pm
Re: Mundane Challenge: The Euro Crisis 48 by damon Mark wrote:Are you a prognosticator? Are you tired of seeing astrologers describing events retrospectively rather than predicting them? Do you feel you have the ability to predict a major event using your astrological knowledge? Have you seen an event in the news and thought..''I knew that was coming based on chart x?'' If so here is the first of what I will call our mundane challenges! The Challenge question ''Will the Euro currency collapse and if so when?'' The Background We are are all aware of the grave crisis facing the Euro currency. Its been an ongoing issue over the last few years and has kept intensifying. The Greek , Irish, Portugese bail outs have put the Euro under extreme financial pressure. The markets and credit rating agencies have now moved on to seriously question the sovereign debt liabilities of both the Italian and Spanish economies. Some economists are predicting that the Euro will collapse under the weight of this sovereign debt which will prove too large to keep bailing out. Many German voters were unhappy with the scale of assistance needed to prop up the Greek economy. Will they and Angela Merkel really accept the far more dramatic sums required to keep Spain and Italy afloat in the long term? This has led some economic forecasters to suggest that the poorer performing countries will need to leave the Euro altogether if it is to survive at all. There is also discussion of a Euro bond so that the debt of all the Euro economies is shared allowing the healthy German economy to pull up the Euro as a currency overall. Understandably, the German Chancellor and many German citizens are not keen on this idea. Astrology charts Lots of types of charts could be used to analyse this issue. National government, foundational ingress, quarterly ingress, eclipse, Jupiter-Saturn conj charts, pre-lunation etc. Its up to you. To start us off here are two charts for the Euro. Firstly, the chart for the launch of the Euro in 1999. Its located for Frankfurt , the financial HQ of the Euro rather than Brussels. Secondly, the chart for 2002 marks the time the Euro became legal tender replacing national currencies in the Euro-zone. Prediction required Emphatic and clear to all. If you see the currency falling it would be good to see a prediction timed down to a month and even week. Equally, if you think it will survive please be clear. Techniques Feel welcome to use any and all techniques at your disposal from humble transits, to primary directions, solar returns, firdaria, progressions, solar arcs, profections etc. Please dont feel the need to rush your response. A careful measured analysis is probably more useful. Looking forward to your analysis! I know we have some talented financial astrologers out there. However, even if financial astrology is not your forte this issue seems a crucial one to answer astrologically. Mark Well Uranus-Mars transiting the DEC point to the EU shooting their own foot regarding Cyprus. Who will keep his money in Banks now? Not me. I dont trust them when they say "it wont happen here" Quote Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:24 pm