A. H. Cats wrote: Ukraine 1991;
6-March-2014 010?,59'22 Aries Ura 135 Jup transit

It may be worth noting that globally, Jupiter and Uranus form an approaching almost exact square, which soon will be exact as Jupiter starts to move direct. Furthermore, Pluto is opposite Jupiter, with a 2 1/2 deg orb, setting up a quite explosive T-square imo.

I wonder if Pluto here symbolizes the treaty behind Ukraine giving up its Nuclear weapons in exchange of guaranties for their territorial sovereignty being respected, signed by Russia, US and some others. Russia is clearly breaking that agreement if they now let Crimea become an integrated part of the Russian Federation. I see no way the rest of the world can accept that, even if it goes to direct military conflict or we indeed will have 1936-39 all over again. Not sure what would be the trigger though but this can really turn sour!

thanks lunlumo,

below is a chart for 2014 kiev sun @ 15 aq ingress. one could say 9-13 cardinal is emphasized.

hi joakim,

it is tricky to not get caught up in the propaganda as so much of it is going around! it is probably best to focus on the astrology though. that is what the moderators say here at skyscript.. ps - it wouldn't be the first time a lot os lies were used to promote more war.. cheers - james

another quick note.. jupiter goes direct in another 4 hours local time here... venus is moving slowly, but picking up steam.. it is possible that a breathe of fresh air will come, given the movement of these positives, while mars, saturn and mercury are now retro. that is one positive thought to hold to with the retro/forward direction of the planets here..


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Hi james, not sure what propaganda you are hinting at that I (possibly) would be caught up in but I think my "common sense" filter still works pretty well and my focus is certainly on the astrology. Doesn't mean one cannot touch on sensitive subjects though in relation to it or should close ones eyes for potential dark outcomes. In the end, and I think it's important to attach that to the astrology, history is shaped by choices and actions done by men of free will, not by planetary positions, which isn't to say that they lack bearing and influences.

Anyway, if Mercury still is retrograde in your software you may need to get another one, afaik it has been direct for almost a week now. cheers and take care.

hi joakim

thanks! i have a 6 day window for stationary planets.. yes - mercury turned direct at 18 aq about 5.7 days ago, lol.. i got that one backwards..

i only mentioned the propaganda as the word hitler was mentioned.. if that isn't an obvious sign of propaganda, i don't know what is. that's all.. funny little man was the other line i found slanted one way. do we say this about obama as well? cheers james

Hi James,
thanks fo that chart. With AC conj the northern Node in SCO there's the danger of being carried away by unreflected and "enforced" national impulses. And MO conj UR and additional squares in - you mentioned it - cardinal signs: I think there might be other countries and populations endangered by the more or less sudden move towards splitting up. MO/UR is conj DC when related to London - it might have to do with the vote on Scottish independence.
LL

I have come to wonder if this whole "affair" isn't more about Russia (or even Putin) actually than Ukraine, so I hesitated whether to post this here or in this thread but decided for where the actual action is, at least now.

That other thread above presents a rectified chart for Russia 25 Dec 1991 at 19:42:32 rather than 19:45 as given in Champions book, and well it doesn't matter so much in this case at least.

So, of the ongoing T-square with Jupiter/Pluter opp, square Uranus, it's interesting to notice that Jupiter not only have been passing over Russia SN but also was stationary right there the other day, while the situation actually deteriorated imo. Anyway, I find this rather significant although it can be questionably how much this alone "contributes" to the situation? But I think it's important to stress that Jupiter isn't always a good or beneficial influence and I think a conjunction with SN is actually a quite good example of when that easily can come true.

But I was looking for something else, and particularly that involves the Sun which at first sight seems to be unafflicted by transits . A closer look shows that not to be the case though. Saturn is indeed currently in a more or less exact Nonagon (or Novile if you like) 40 deg. transit to the Sun and interestingly it also includes a stationary phase as Saturn just turned Retrograde the other day.

In my view, so called minor aspects aren't of lesser importance that the so called major, especially if they are exact and it also includes transits. Nonagons belongs in the same aspects family as the trine and obviusly doesn't have the same dynamic impact as e.g. sesquiquadrate would have, but with Saturn in Scorpio this could e.g. mean a hidden, indirect or in other way non seen impact.

Anyway, there isn't much written on the minors but Sakoian and Acker wrote a small booklet back in 1978, which probably is, if not the first so at least one other first publications concerning minors in modern time. According to them, and I quote "The departing nonagon corresponds to 10 deg of Taurus in the natural Zodiac, belonging to the Virgo decanate and Virgo duad of Taurus. The approaching nonnagon corresponds to 20 deg of Aquarius in the Libra decanate and Libra duad of Aquarius".

I'm a fan of Rudhyar and particullarily finds his "An Astrological Manada" useful and applying to the situation (or the chart) what he says on these degrees are quite interesting if not astonishing. I think what we have here is an approaching (correct me if I'm wrong) Nonagon so I will begin to quote Aquarius 20 EDIT: In the book this corresponds to AQU 21

An Astrological Mandala - Aquarius 21 deg wrote:A disappointed and disillusioned woman courageously faces a seemingly empty life
Keynote: The capacity to meet emotionally upsetting experiences in human relationships with strength of character and personal integrity.
The man who manages vast and complex business enterprises most often reaches power and achieves success because of his ability to deal with crises and temporary reverses of fortune. At the emotional level we now see a "woman" confronted with sharp disappointment and forced to face the vanishing of cherished illusions, presumably in terms of a close personal relationship. She has to learn to manage such crises, which are really tests of inner strength and perhaps compassion. We all have within ourselves the power to learn through emotional crises. But like any other faculty it needs development.

This is the first symbol in the sixty-fifth five fold sequence. it urges us to develop RESILIENCE under adversity

This was of course not written with a mundane perspective in mind, so one have to "rethink" it maybe or in this case can it possibly be applied on the person "behind" Russia representing the Sun here, Putin? Didn't he lose her wife recently? If you are doing "grief work" and is the leader of (ex. maybe) a super power, wouldn't that "shine through"? Well I guess I'm looking for an alternative, hidden angle/cause here, trying to understand why Putin and Russia behave as they do, I may be totally wrong.

There are of course more "visible" reasons as well, transit Saturn cnj Venus in Scorpio, but even that is of course by nature "hidden" to a rather large degree. Maybe Russia's financial situation is much worse than what shows, tensions growing and what's better then than banging the nationalism drum, we have seen this before.

Anyway, I think this Ukraine "affair", if not already is, can come to develop into something very bad for Russia and as I read somewhere else, and I mean this symbolically, "the may win this battle but will lose the war". Can this signify the beginning of the end of the "Putin era", maybe conclusive when Saturn later transits the Russian Sun? Jusat throwing out a thought here though as I haven't been down that road in depth investigating.

A small addition to my previous post. As the Russian chart has a Sun/Moon trine, the Saturn Nonagon transit to the Sun, will by automation also create a bi-nonagon to the Moon, but a departing one. Sakoian and Acker does't designate any zodiacal degrees to this in their booklet, but most likely they should be different that the ones for the full nonagon.

Still it can be interesting to hear what Rudhyar says of the departing aspect zodiac degree Tau 10 (which becomes 11 in the book):

An Astrological Manadala - Taurus 11 deg wrote: A woman watering flowers in her garden
Keynote: Development of the powers of the mind on which ego-consciousness is based.

The psycho-mental nature of a human being takes form out of the fulfillment and trancendence of biological functions and drives, much as the bud appears as the sap rises, and burst forth into bloom. "As the roots, so the flower" is an old axiom. The consciousness attaches itself to this wondrous efflorescence; it lavishes its attention upon it, its love - alas, usually a possessive kind of love ("This is my garden!"). THus the ego develops. It may develop in a negative, resentful way if a belated frost destroys the bud.

Even if there is no source to connect this also to the bi-nanogon, I think it could apply pretty well on the current state of the Moon, or in this case the Russian people, or (and I think this is important to note) what we see and hear from them. Obviously, a small vocal and well organized group can easily make themselves appear to be much bigger than what they really are. The Sun/Moon trine in the Russian chart is a strong indicator though that Putin at large has the peoples support. The problem with trines though is that eventually they leave you hopelessly behind and there will be a day when yesterdays glory doesn't exchange into a currency of today. Quite possibly, the majority of the Russian people don't want to include Crimea, when it comes down to it, because they doesn't exactly add cookies to the table, so someone has to pay for it.

It would be most interesting too look at Putins chart. I haven't looked for it as I'm a bit short of time, and also I don't want to push this thread in a direction that the topic started may not desire. Although in my view all this has to do with Ukraine 2014

Dmytro Yarosh

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmytro_Yarosh

somewhat related to the conversation. this is the leader of 'right sector' who are said to be calling the shots in ukraine at present. he is planning on running for president, and may or may not be saying some interesting noteworthy things on 'right sectors' webpage from time to time.

below is his chart set to noon on a 45 degree wheel. at the bottom is the 360 chart.


screen shot on windows


print screen windows

You don't need to look any further than Uranus in Aries applying to Pluto in Capricorn, now about 2? applying.

On 14th April Pluto turns retro right into the path of Uranus so what will then be a very bad situation will turn very nasty till the 21st April when it will begin to ease.

This aspect has underpinned much of the nasty troubles around the World these last years.

SIMPLES.

H

Rocko wrote:

You don't need to look any further than Uranus in Aries applying to Pluto in Capricorn, now about 2? applying.

On 14th April Pluto turns retro right into the path of Uranus so what will then be a very bad situation will turn very nasty till the 21st April when it will begin to ease.

This aspect has underpinned much of the nasty troubles around the World these last years.

SIMPLES.

H

That gives us an astrological why now but not an explanation why Ukraine rather than for example Poland.

That is why things like ingress or national charts are used.

Mark

Rocko wrote:You don't need to look any further than Uranus in Aries applying to Pluto in Capricorn, now about 2? applying.

On 14th April Pluto turns retro right into the path of Uranus so what will then be a very bad situation will turn very nasty till the 21st April when it will begin to ease.

This aspect has underpinned much of the nasty troubles around the World these last years.

SIMPLES.

H

rocko - i agree with your window of time being a potentially more challenging one.. i would isolate it more specifically to the eclipse that happens around april 15/16th area and the moons travels thru that window from mars to saturn which happens to be the burnt path. this is the same window the moon was traveling in during the feb 21st time frame - area of a lot of momentum specific to ukraine..

ultimately i agree with mark - what you are looking at with uranus and pluto is a theme for the whole world.. why single out ukraine, other then the obvious reason it is under duress and a more likely spot to suffer from any weakness implied by the movement of the planets?

and maybe more importantly i mentioned the date of the full moon april 15th as being very important to watch.. if you look at the ingress chart put to kiev for sun at 0 aries, you will note the position of mars retro at 25 libra which is the same degree of the full moon eclipse.. mars rules the 7th and 2nd in the ingress chart.. for something to come out of the connection back to the ingress chart for kiev at this point in time makes a lot of sense.. just how much of it has to do with the movement of uranus and pluto, i am not so sure, but it is a time frame worth paying attention to..

Let me one more time refer to the 1684 chart given above in this thread - the one based on the Chinese patterns of time.
This time for Simferopol :
MC conj Pluto at 17 CAN ( a degree implying a saturnine impact)

Outer circle: Putin's planets - UR con MC/PL, and SUN conj. AC . and SA square PL/MC of the chart for 1684.
SA square UR - rise followed by a fall ) - as demonstrated by Arcana XVI of the Tarot).
AC at 13 LIB - as has already been mentioned: April will probably bring the climax (?). Around April 22nd: MA, PL, JU, UR all at 13,x degrees cardinal signs.
(In addition to the 1684 one might also have a look at its subordinate chart of 1984, SUN at 15:00 AQU - forming the final "Sixth" of the 1684 chart. You get MA con IC con SA there.)

LL