ah, sorry, thankyou

Hillary Clinton's Vice Presidential Running Mate

From the Solunars Forum, 22 July 2016:

"Patrick Wilson reports "According to an uncertified copy of his birth certificate from the Minnesota Department of Health, Tim Kaine was born at 7:59 AM on February 26th, 1958 in St. Paul, Minnesota." from his website.

Tim Kaine [Virginia Senator]...was announced at 8:15 PM EDT tonight, July 22, 2016 as Mrs. Clinton's running mate.

I'm not sure what Patrick Watson (name misspelled on Solunars) means by "uncertified copy of his birth certificate," but the birth time as given makes us wonder if Hillary Clinton employs her very own personal astrologer. Kaine's synastry with her chart is striking, and also gives some support for a PM birth time for Hillary. (Degrees here are sidereal, but the aspect synastry would be the same in the tropical zodiac with very slightly different orbs due to the 11 years between the two births.)

6 Gem 53 Hillary Ascendant (8:01:30 PM)
8 Gem 27 Kaine Part of Fortune

12 Aqu 30 Hillary MC
09 Aqu 50 Kaine Mercury
14 Aqu 18 Kaine Sun (Kaine's Mer/Sun straddle Hillary's PM MC)

06Psc 11 Hillary Moon
11Psc 45 Kaine Ascendant

There are other harmonious aspects as can be seen in the synastry chart below, most notably Kaine's Jupiter on Hillary's Sun and his Venus on Hillary's PM Part of Fortune. It seems that the contacts to Hillary's Ascendant, Moon and Part of Fortune give support for a circa 8 PM birth time. (I haven't checked a AM synastry for the two charts.)

As this is a professional partnership, it's interesting that Kaine's ascendant conjoins Hillary's Moon in her (equal) 10th house, but also Kaine's Sun and Mercury are on her MC! Kaine's Pisces ascendant lord Jupiter is on Hillary's Sun. And Kaine's MC is on Hillary's descendant. Could all this happen by accident!? The majority of synastry aspects (see grid below) involve Hillary's PM ascendant, MC and Part of Fortune along with the Sun and Moon.
P.S. Many thanks, Stellarium, for changing the size of your chart. Much appreciated!

Therese Hamilton wrote:

P.S. Many thanks, Stellarium, for changing the size of your chart. Much appreciated!

Actually it was me! I just couldn't tolerate having the thread pages distorted any longer.

Mark

Mark wrote:Therese Hamilton wrote:

P.S. Many thanks, Stellarium, for changing the size of your chart. Much appreciated!

Actually it was me! I just couldn't tolerate having the thread pages distorted any longer.
Mark

All's well that ends well...

Re: Tim Kaine's birth data, Jim Eshelman posted this today on the Solunars forum:

It [uncertified copy of his birth certificate] means he wrote to the Minnesota Department of Health and received a birth certificate back. However, such agencies only certify birth certificates (make them usable as a legal document) under limited conditions. This may vary from state to state but, generally, I think it's that the request has to be from the person involved, it has a slightly different cost, it's usable for things like getting a passport etc.

I edited my post above as (in a tired state of mind) I had mixed up AM and PM designations. I use a PM birth time for Hillary.

Therese Hamilton wrote:

Rao uses only concrete facts in his astrological work, and of course, we can take his work or leave it as we choose.

James_M wrote:

does he have a birth certificate for hillary? if not - he or anyone else can say whatever they want to say and that is a fact too.. doesn't mean it is factually true, just a fact..

Therese Hamilton wrote:

Instead of attempting to start an argument, why not use past events to check the data for yourself using whatever methods you prefer?

Therese, James is sceptical about relying on a chart where there as such conflicting times. He therefore finds it difficult to accept authorative statement's based on rectification of Hillary Clinton's chart because of that. He is fully entitled to his view.

I know quite a few astrologers such as Steven Birchfield who have decided to not make a public prediction on this election due to the ambiguity over Clinton's data.

At the present time the majority of contemporary astrologers who have rectified this chart, using a variety of techniques, seem to favour a chart focused around 8.00am. In particular Patrick Watson, Chris Brennan, Curtis Manwaring, Theodore White, Basil Fearrington, Tony Dickey, Jamie Patridge etc. I personally, think the data suggesting an AM chart is stronger.

But going back a few years when the PM chart was more popular we had astrologers like Celeste Longacre, and the late KT Boehrer and Alexander Marr favouring a PM time around 8.00pm

But we also have an evening chart rectified for 10.53PM by Regulus Astrology.

I am not saying your evening time is wrong. Frankly how could I? I simply want to reiterate this is a controversial issue for which there is no consensus. Unless Clinton releases her birth certificate we may never know her chart time for sure. So I think anyone writing on her chart needs to accept some degree of uncertainty about the birth data being used.

If you have not done so already I recommend everyone check out the Astrodatabank page on Hillary Clinton and read the data notes at the bottom.

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Clinton,_Hillary

Mark

Reading all the "anonymous" sources quoted makes me wonder if many of them were not elves and dwarfs, maybe also the ghost of Maria Antonieta.

Yuzuru wrote:

Reading all the "anonymous" sources quoted makes me wonder if many of them were not elves and dwarfs, maybe also the ghost of Maria Antonieta.

Ok. Anything astrological to say on this election?

Mark

well, I will behave.

Looking at the solar ingress it favours democrats.

Looking at the natal chart of hillary and trump, even with the fuzzy clinton?s map, the transits at the day of the assumption of power, jan 20th, seems to connect to clinton?s chart, not trump.

The chart that Trump accepts the nomination is a little more fuzzy. Moon void, last aspect was mars. MC in final degrees. But sun in about to gain a lot of dignity. In this case I am confused. I will hope that when Clinton wins her nomination it will be easier to see which chart is stronger.

So I assume Clinton will win at the end.

Of course we can always be wrong, but it seems enough evidence. The only thing that makes me a little uncertain is that the current Jupiter saturn cycle can overule more terrestrial evidences like that, but the truth is that we still don?t know how to interpret the JS cycles ahead of time, so we have to work with what we have

Mark wrote:

I am not saying your evening time is wrong. Frankly how could I? I simply want to reiterate this is a controversial issue for which there is no consensus. Unless Clinton releases her birth certificate we may never know her chart time for sure. So I think anyone writing on her chart needs to accept some degree of uncertainty about the birth data being used.

Of course we all realize that Hillary's birth time is controversial. No disagreement there.

But the AM/PM controversy brings to mind Dr. Suitbert Ertel's test for astrologers where they were asked to identify the charts of painters or politicians. Astrologers could do no better than chance. Hillary Clinton is the consummate politician. As astrologers, why isn't there agreement on which birth chart would belong to a politician? This is a good question for all of us.

Data Update: The astrologer Patrick Watson has sourced a birth certificate for Senator Tim Kaine who is Hillary Clinton's choice as running mate for Vice-President.

Data: 7:59 AM on February 26th, 1958 in St. Paul, Minnesota.

http://www.patrickwatsonastrologer.com/ ... iscovered/

Mark

Nate Silver Latest Projection:

https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/statu ... 2667188224