Therese Hamilton wrote:I wonder then about interpretation. For example in Martin's example of the Moon. If we're reading a chart for a client (or for a mundane event) do we or don't we interpret the Moon as angular?? Or how about the Moon and personality for a client? Do we look at ecliptical aspects and house positions?

I would definitely treat the Moon as angular (in the first house). Aspects are a different matter, as they are based on distances in the ecliptic. This client was definitely very lunar. I remember her telling me how, growing up, she was so close to her sister that she couldn't really make out the boundary between them (and no, they weren't twins). That symbiotic quality, in my experience, is peculiarly lunar.

Re: "Indeed, but positions along it (= above/below the horizon) are normally called altitude, not longitude. At least as far as I know."

Here's the menu option I'm using...

Re: "I wonder then about interpretation. For example in Martin's example of the Moon. If we're reading a chart for a client (or for a mundane event) do we or don't we interpret the Moon as angular??"

Angularity won't change the inherent character of the Moon (imho), here it will merely (by being angular) make it much more expressive. (obvious in its actions) I see it analagously to astro-cartography. If I move to my Sun line, it doesn't change my Sun, but it makes it damned more expressive and obvious (whatever imy natal Sun "means" in my natal) at that location.

Don't you see it also that way?

Atlantean wrote:Here's the menu option I'm using...

And is that software based on Eshelman's work?

No, that's Janus 5.5

Martin wrote:

I would definitely treat the Moon as angular (in the first house).

Atlantean wrote:

Angularity won't change the inherent character of the Moon (imho), here it will merely (by being angular) make it much more expressive. (obvious in its actions) I see it analagously to astro-cartography. If I move to my Sun line, it doesn't change my Sun, but it makes it damned more expressive (whatever it means in my natal) at that location.

So (for example) we can keep the Moon in the 12th ecliptical house, but consider that it would be more expressive than usual if on the ascendant via PV? This is different than the Moon being understood as actually in the first house. I have a problem with that because a 12th house Moon has specific meanings that wouldn't apply to a 1st house Moon. Also, consider which house the Moon happens to rule. It matters if the Moon is in the 1st or 12th house.

Anyway, so as not to confuse the issue, it seems best initially to limit planetary positions to the ecliptic. PV positions should probably be a separate research topic.

Atlantean wrote:No, that's Janus 5.5

I wonder where they got the terminology, then. When I search for it online, all the hits I get are western siderealist ones. It's not a standard term.

Therese Hamilton wrote:So (for example) we can keep the Moon in the 12th ecliptical house, but consider that it would be more expressive than usual if on the ascendant via PV?

I'm not sure 'ecliptical house' is a meaningful concept. I would not consider a planet on the horizon to be in the 12th (or 6th) house.

Martin wrote:

I'm not sure 'ecliptical house' is a meaningful concept. I would not consider a planet on the horizon to be in the 12th (or 6th) house.

I meant whatever house system an astrologer happened to be using that would keep the Moon some distance from the ascendant.

Martin wrote:

I wonder where they got the terminology, then. When I search for it online, all the hits I get are western siderealist ones. It's not a standard term.

You will find some unique terminology among Fagan-Bradley school astrologers. Such as sidereal signs are still referred to by some practitioners as 'constellations.' Jim Eshelman still uses that term, and his students follow his directive.

DuPont Powder Mill explosion (Mar 11, 1911)

Aquarius Ingress

Fagan-Bradley: Venus

Krishnamurti: Pluto (PVL)

300 tons of dynamite, 105,000 kegs of black blasting powder, and five railroad cars filled with dynamite all exploding is of course closer to Pluto.

Monthly Ingress
Scorekeeper: FB 2, Kr: 13
_______________________________________________

As an aside, I decided to look at the CapLunar (a technique normally used by Siderealists) with both Fagan-Bradley and Krishnamurti (outside the tallied survey)

Fagan-Bradley: Moon, Mercury, Sun w/ ~2° Moon-Uranus conjunction

Krishnamurti: Mars, Saturn, Neptune w/ ~1° Moon-Uranus conjunction

Even using their technique, in (at least) this instance, the Krishnamurti is more appropriate. The Krishnamurti CapLunar here, is a great chart, showing fire/ordnance (Mars), extensive property damage (Saturn) and smoke and confusion (Neptune). The one saving grace of the Fagan-Bradley ingress (the Moon-Uranus aspect) is even closer in the Krishnamurti. I'm not tallying CapLunars, but if I were...

Is the Caplunar the entrance of the Moon into sidereal Capricorn prior to the date of an event? So these would be monthly occurrences?

Well, anyway, Krishnamurti is still on top. This is interesting because with solar ingress charts I rather expected perhaps a 60-40 percentage split. But Krishnamurti is doing much better than that. I'm pleased that this vindicates K.S. Krishnamurti's pioneering research. It means we don't have to remain stuck in past centuries, and that modern research is important.

Atlantean wrote:

However, for what seems like a valid technique (in all the charts I have surveyed so far in this technique), the Krishnamurti ayanamsa is working like the ayanamsa...

This is probably the most significant statement made in modern times for astrologers who use the FB ayanamsa. (Assuming that further research brings similar results to those noted on this forum in the last two days or so.)