I don't know what you want to tell us with your Guru story.

To me, Aurobindo is a perfect example of someone who embodied "free will" because he lived all his life dedicated to the divine.
And working, the Karma Yoga, is one of the easiest way to approach free will because you can 'consciously' choose to dedicate your action to the right place (the Eternal and Divine part in each of us) and you don't need to sit and meditate.
You can disagree with that vision but the experiences I had at the ashram totally transformed my life.

Read Savitri, his epic poetry with particular sonorities and their mantric force because he writes from the so-called "Overhead planes", that is to say, from planes beyond the mind.
Read it out loud and your spirit will be filled with so much Light that you will not be able to stand it for more than 5 minutes because it is too powerful.
Aurobindo has the Sun conjunct Jupiter in Leo and the midpoint is at the Vernal Point. It is like being hit by a sunstroke.

Ouranos wrote: Fri Jan 17, 2025 12:24 pm Aurobindo has the Sun conjunct Jupiter in Leo and the midpoint is at the Vernal Point. It is like being hit by a sunstroke.

My sister has the Sun conjunct Jupiter conjunct Mars in Leo. Her husband died when this conjunction was triggered by the moon at the AC.

Ouranos wrote: Fri Jan 17, 2025 12:24 pm Aurobindo has the Sun conjunct Jupiter in Leo and the midpoint is at the Vernal Point. It is like being hit by a sunstroke.

Hi Ouranos,

No disrespect intended to Aurobindo, of whom I know little, but according to my calculations the direct midpoint of Aurobindo's Sun/Jupiter is 18d02m Leo, and the opposite midpoint is 18d02m Aquarius, far from the Vernal Point. (Vernal Point meaning Sun's position in tropical zodiac on first day of Spring in northern hemisphere, I.e. 0 deg Aries.) Am I misunderstanding you somehow?

--stargeezer

His JU is at 13 Leo 38 and his SU 18 Leo 09. The midpoint SU/JU 15 Leo 05.
The Vernal Point represents all the points of the cardinal cross.
If you look at a chart on the 45 Wheel, you can see that all planets or points located at 0 Cardinal and 15 Fixed will be in conjunction at the Vernal Point.
What we call the Aries Point can be misleading, that's why I prefer the Vernal Point to describe all the points connected to 0 Aries by hard aspects.


Best to you,
Ouranos

Ouranos wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2025 12:06 am His JU is at 13 Leo 38 and his SU 18 Leo 09. The midpoint SU/JU 15 Leo 05.
The Vernal Point represents all the points of the cardinal cross.
If you look at a chart on the 45 Wheel, you can see that all planets or points located at 0 Cardinal and 15 Fixed will be in conjunction at the Vernal Point.
What we call the Aries Point can be misleading, that's why I prefer the Vernal Point to describe all the points connected to 0 Aries by hard aspects.


Best to you,
Ouranos

Okay. If we take 15 Leo as the midpoint, then it is --45-- to 0 Libra and 0 Cancer, and --135-- to 0 Aries and 0 Capricorn. But it isn't actually conjunct or in opposition to those points in a 360-degree chart; a 45-degree wheel just makes it look that way. I understand now.

I used Aurobindo's chart from astrodatabank, which gives different values for SU and JU, so I got 18d02m Leo for the midpoint. You must have a different date of birth, as there's a 4 degree difference in the SU position.

Thanks for clarifying.

--stargeezer

Look at this beautiful trine between Mercury in Virgo and Saturn in Capricorn, both in rulership and at the Vernal Point. He spent at least 12 hours a day writing poetry, books and answering the letters he received.

Ouranus,

Re use of the term "Vernal Point": The word "vernal" comes from a Latin root meaning spring; the Vernal Equinox, for example, is the Spring Equinox, so really it's the same as saying Aries Point. If you want something that includes all of Aries, Cancer, Libra and Capricorn, maybe "Cardinal Points" would be better? Using Vernal Point to include signs other than Aries is misleading, IMHO.

--stargeezer

It is not my free will to go to toilet if I must. It is my free will not to go to toilet if I must.

If the world were deterministic, it would strictly follow cause-and-effect relationships, and no matter how broadly these connections branched out, their essence would remain unchanged — cause and effect.

However, a person can, at any moment, make a choice that has no causal connection. This in itself is proof that the world is not deterministic.

xeno wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2025 12:53 pm If the world were deterministic, it would strictly follow cause-and-effect relationships, and no matter how broadly these connections branched out, their essence would remain unchanged — cause and effect.

However, a person can, at any moment, make a choice that has no causal connection. This in itself is proof that the world is not deterministic.

What's the proof that the choice has no causal connection? It could be predestined. I'm not saying that it is; only that you can't prove that it isn't, so this cannot be used as proof of free will.

--stargeezer

stargeezer wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2025 8:00 pm

xeno wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2025 12:53 pm If the world were deterministic, it would strictly follow cause-and-effect relationships, and no matter how broadly these connections branched out, their essence would remain unchanged — cause and effect.

However, a person can, at any moment, make a choice that has no causal connection. This in itself is proof that the world is not deterministic.

What's the proof that the choice has no causal connection? It could be predestined. I'm not saying that it is; only that you can't prove that it isn't, so this cannot be used as proof of free will.

--stargeezer

Just do it yourself as you see fit.
Choose something completely unrelated to you – that will be your personal proof of free will.