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49 by Andries H. Cats
I saw the birthtime 7h11m on internet and chequed it with the Gieles minus 1 year predictsystem and concluded that the time could not be correct.
4 november 2008 election day.
Progressive aspect for president George W. Bush on
4-Nov-2008 006?,30'08 Steenbok Moon 135 Ven
Progressive aspect for vice president Dick Cheney on
4-Nov-2008 022?,09'04 Leeuw Moon 90 Ura
You could think that not a republican candidate shall win.
President Bush is aserted being prepare an attack on Iran.
Do you know on what day this can be possible?
Think of 2 september 2008!

50 by Andries H. Cats
On June 2, 2008 as you read the news on internet you must conclude that it is over for Hillary D. Rodham (Clinton).

Barack H. Obama.

Progressive aspect.

2-Jun-2008 021?,48'25 Capricornus Moon 120 C-11

Transits.

2-Jun-2008 010?,20'43 Gemini Ven 135 Sat
2-Jun-2008 021?,29'10 Capricornus Jup 90 C-12
2-Jun-2008 +21?,37'37 Merc // Ven
2-Jun-2008 022?,25'17 Pisces Ura 180 Mars
2-Jun-2008 +12?,12'09 Sat // Drac
2-Jun-2008 +21?,37'37 Merc // Ven
2-Jun-2008 012?,16'37 Gemini Sun 30 Black Sun
2-Jun-2008 012?,18'08 Gemini Sun 60 Sun
2-Jun-2008 +22?,17'49 Sun # C--3
2-Jun-2008 022?,25'17 Pisces Ura 180 Mars
3-Jun-2008 002?,31'00 Virgo Sat 135 C?3
3-Jun-2008 002?,19'19 Gemini Moon 60 Black Moon
3-Jun-2008 019?,38'09 Gemini Merc 60 MC

Hillary D. Rodham (Clinton).

Progressive aspects.

2-Jun-2008 026?,21'26 Taurus Moon 135 Nep

10-Jun-2008 000?,31'09 Aquarius Ven 60 Jup

Transits.

2-Jun-2008 +18?,17'05 Mars # Asc
3-Jun-2008 013?,15'46 Gemini Sun 135 C?3
3-Jun-2008 004?,31'42 Gemini Moon 135 Black Moon
3-Jun-2008 021?,23'49 Capricornus Jup 60 Merc
4-Jun-2008 022?,27'02 Pisces Ura 90 C?2
4-Jun-2008 021?,18'48 Capricornus Jup 150 Sat
4-Jun-2008 014?,00'46 Leo Mars 0 Mars

I expect that Hillary will announce her defeat on the night of june 3 after the results of the last primary elections
I expect that she will be the running mate for Obama and that she will be the vice president in 2009.

Re: Also at Daily Kos

54 by Dave of Maryland
RegulusAstrology wrote:http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/12 ... 320/534616

Getting closer to my rectification ;)

Still prefer Sag/Gemini MC/IC axis, but we will see

Maybe by Mercury direct!
I recently added 20 minutes to my recorded birth time. My rationalization was a transcription error. 52 minutes past the hour misread as 32 minutes. Lordy! What that did to my chart. And I had thought my BC was iron-clad.

Obama's birth certificate, as published, is an abstract. It is not the complete birth record. It does not tell us if he was born at home or a hospital (or which one), it does not tell us the name of the attending physician or midwife, nor who filed the papers, if not the doctor. I mention this because the 7:11 & 7:24 charts, in my opinion, simply do not read.

Dave
www.AstroAmerica.com
Better books make better astrologers. Treat yourself!

56 by Tom
Obama's birth certificate, as published, is an abstract. It is not the complete birth record. It does not tell us if he was born at home or a hospital (or which one), it does not tell us the name of the attending physician or midwife, nor who filed the papers, if not the doctor. I mention this because the 7:11 & 7:24 charts, in my opinion, simply do not read.
This is a recent copy of a county board of health birth certificate. In other words if someone wants a copy of his or her bc he or she simply applies to the board of health in the county where the individual was born. Look near the bottom in the center one can read the backwards date of June 6 2007. This would be the date the particular bc was issued.

Hospitals in the US issue their own birth certificates. That one has the name of the attending physician, and other details including the birth time. Some counties do not record birth times. My hospital bc has my birth time but my county bc does not. My county issued birth certificate does not list the hospital, attending physician or have a footprint on it (do they still do that?), since the footprint is taken at the time of birth, while the county records the birth usually within about 30 days of the event. It all depends on the particular agency and/or the requirements of state/local regulations. The counties register births - not the states. but the states set at least some of the regulations regarding the recording of births. In 1961 it would be highly unusual for an individual to be born at home and not in a hospital, but still not impossible. Babies are occasionally born in ambulances, police cars, and at baseball games I suppose.

What is odd about this one is the large amount of blank space on the front of the certificate, and the lack of a raised seal. Birth certificates usually have a seal or stamp from the local agency making it official. If it were one of those impressed seals that does not use ink, the paper in the lower right hand corner might be distorted somehow even if the seal was not visible.

Still it looks official.

Tom

57 by Dave of Maryland

This is a recent copy of a county board of health birth certificate.
I beg to differ. Obama's BC has the state seal top center.

Some counties do not record birth times. My hospital bc has my birth time but my county bc does not.


What county were you born in? Does it have the county seal on it, or the state seal?
The counties register births - not the states.


States maintain the registry of births, deaths & marriages. There is a central records office in each of the 50 states.
but the states set at least some of the regulations regarding the recording of births.


All states have required recorded birth times, back to at least 1920. (Hawaii & Alaska, as territories, presumably did as well.) Over the past 20 plus years I have seen several lists of the names, addresses, phone numbers & fees for for birth certificates for each of the 50 states.

What is odd about this one is the large amount of blank space on the front of the certificate, and the lack of a raised seal.


It was run on a laser printer. The format should be 8.5 x 11 inches. Over at Daily Kos, the guy who posted it said he had trimmed the image into a square. There should be a watermark.

At the very bottom of the certificate, on the very last line, are the mysterious letters, OHSM, which stands for Office of Health Status Monitoring. Then follows "1.1", which I do not understand. Then there is (REV. 11/01) which was the date (November 2001) the form was last redesigned. This was roughly one month after the Patriot Act was passed, which may explain it. Finally there is the single word, LASER, which should be self-explanatory.

The certificate is genuine, but I would like more information about it. I personally know of a number of instances where the information recorded on a birth certificate was not accurate. The reasons vary. The filing date, four days after birth, is typical.

Why do I think the time is suspect? Here is one reason:

Obama declared for the presidency in Springfield, IL on February 10, 2007, during a void of course moon. I thought that factor alone would bounce him out of the race in a matter of months.

The recent DNC Michigan/Florida rules debate occurred on a Mercury retrograde / void of course. It was decided in favor of Obama.

The Democratic National Convention will most likely gavel into existence during a void.

Election day is a void.

Swearing in, noon on January 20, 2009, is a void.

If Obama's moon is void - which it is if it's in Taurus - then he is ideally placed to profit from these many, amazing voids. If not, if his moon is in Gemini, then we must wonder why Obama is mysteriously exempt from standard astrological rules.

An inverted argument may be made for Hillary Clinton. Her commonly accepted birth time gives a void moon in Pisces. Push her time to about 10 pm & you get Aries. After the events of the last six months I shouldn't think her Aries moon would still be in doubt.

Dave
www.AstroAmerica.com
Better books make better astrologers. Treat yourself!

58 by Tom
Since my previous post I did a little file searching and thought I'd pass this information along regarding birth certificates. Nothing that follows will either validate or invalidate the Barak Obama certificate, but a few explanations might be helpful.

Obama's certificate is issued by the State of Hawaii. Perhaps that is the way they do it out there. It is not a densely populated state and the state capital could handle it. The seal on the top of the certificate could be all that is necessary. It does not appear to be a raised seal, and that is odd, but not unheard of. It is an odd looking document though. The date stamped on the other side of the document indicates he requested one the spring of last year, perhaps it was required for campaign documents.

I checked my own birth certificates, and these were issued in New Jersey, but by the city of my birth, not the State. The hospital birth certificate lists the name of the attending physician, the name of the hospital (duh), my parent's names (mother's maiden name) and their birth dates and birth places. This one has the footprints on the back.

I also have the original birth certificate issued by the City where I was born. This does mention the name of the hospital but not the attending physician. It has no raised seal but there is a large printed seal on the document. It was issued within 20 days of my birth.

Finally I have a copy of my birth certificate issued by the city in 1992. I was driving myself nuts trying to remember why I would have needed a copy of my birth certificate in 1992 when I remembered that was the year I was married. Good thing my wife isn't interested in astrology. This one is also issued by the city and has these words in all caps emblazoned at the top:

DO NOT ACCEPT THIS CERTIFICATE UNLESS THE RAISED SEAL OF THIS BUREAU IS AFFIXED HEREON

The seal is there.

What is also there are these words: This is to certify that the following is correctly copied from record of birth in my office.

But that's not true either. Under the place for my mother's maiden name they have her last name listed as "Callanan." That's my name - her married name. Her maiden name is nowhere to be found. The moral of the story is mistakes do happen. Like Obama's this certificate is copied from an original document.

This document does not mention the name of the hospital, but that hospital no longer exists or if it does, it no longer has the same name. This could explain why it isn't on the certificate, but there is no place for the name of the hospital either.

My children's births were registered by the county in which they were born, and those birth certificates list the birth time and the name of the hospital. I do not have their hospital birth certificates.

Finally I'd like to relate a story I'm pretty sure I've posted on Skyscript before. This story was told by Robert Hand and it concerned his experience with birth certificates. His daughter was going to give birth. Naturally one of America's foremost astrologers wanted an accurate birth time. I believe he was in the delivery room. He told us about how many super accurate time keeping systems he used - one to back up the others. He timed the birth, but when the birth certificate was sent it varied significantly from the time he monitored. I think there was between ten and twenty minutes difference. If we can't trust the birth certificate, we do have a problem.

Tom

59 by Tom
I beg to differ. Obama's BC has the state seal top center.
I noted that in the post that came on just after yours. I cannot tell if it is raised or not.
What county were you born in? Does it have the county seal on it, or the state seal?
Essex County NJ, but when I looked closer I noted the certificate was issued by the City, not the county. It has the City Seal. The City I was born in is also the county seat, which is why I made the mistake; I should have looked closer.
All states have required recorded birth times, back to at least 1920.
They may require them, but my City issued birth certificates do not have them. And I was born well after 1920. The hospital BC is the only one that lists my birth time. Maybe Trenton has a copy, but if they took it from the city, it does not have a birth time. The county issued birth certificates for my children have birth times.

Tom

60 by Dave of Maryland
All states have required recorded birth times, back to at least 1920.
They may require them, but my City issued birth certificates do not have them. And I was born well after 1920. The hospital BC is the only one that lists my birth time. Maybe Trenton has a copy, but if they took it from the city, it does not have a birth time. The county issued birth certificates for my children have birth times.

Tom
Until fairly recently you had to insist on the birth time. If you did not, you got a certificate without a birth time, even though a time was recorded and on file with the state agency. This was once a very common, very annoying problem. And it was true of virtually every state: Ask for a simple birth certificate, you would not get a time. You had to insist, sometimes you had to pay extra.

I ran charts for Henry Weingarten's New York Astrology Center, 1986-90. I later calculated that I had run approximately 12,000 charts in four years. At one time or another, I ran into every kind of birth certificate problem imaginable.

Just because you have a "birth certificate" does not mean you have your complete birth record. Not unless you specifically asked for it, and since it's your birth, you should. Aside from the time, there's lots of other interesting details the state collects. The same applies to your children's records. County & city issued birth certificates, so far as I am aware, are rare. I had not previously heard of either. I doubt these have ever been issued outside the original 13 colonies.

Dave
www.AstroAmerica.com
Better books make better astrologers. Treat yourself!
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