It Also occurs to me that Tuesday is a full moon so the majority of the market craziness has occured from the new to Full moon wonder if it climax's Tuesday? really even mroe reason to close markets until the 15th.

I've been finding it hard to get the timing straight in my mind so I've been looking at a timeline of the crisis on the BBC website and trying to relate it to the Mercury retrograde.

Notable events earlier in the year:

Northern Rock nationalised in the UK in February.
Bear Stearns taken over in March for 240 million, having been valued at 18 billion a year previously

July 13th US mortgage lender IndyMac collapses - the second-biggest bank in US history to fail.
July 14th Financial authorities step in to assist America's two largest lenders, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

September:

3rd Mercury enters its retrograde space - 07Lib34.

7th Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac are rescued.
7th Mars square to Jupiter 12Lib32.

8th Mercury square to Jupiter 12Lib32.
8th Mercury conjunct Mars 13Lib06.

9th Venus square to Jupiter 12Lib32.
9th Mercury passes its Sun conjunction point 13Lib58.

10th Lehman Brothers post a loss of $3.9 billion dollars for the 3 months to August.

12th Venus conjunct Mars 15Lib17.

15th Mercury overtaken by Venus 18Lib56.
15th Lehman files for bankruptcy.
15th Merrill Lynch agrees to be taken over by Bank of America.

16th The US Federal Reserve announces an $85bn rescue package for AIG.

17th Britain's biggest mortgage lender HBOS is taken over by Lloyds TSB in a ?12bn deal.

24th Mercury turns retrograde conjunct Mars 22Lib50.

25th Washington Mutual (which had assets valued at $307bn) is closed down by regulators and sold to JPMorgan Chase.

28th Authorities in the Netherlands, Belgium and Luxembourg partly nationalise Fortis.
28th US lawmakers announce they have reached a bipartisan agreement on a rescue plan for the American financial system.

By that point I'd say the crisis had well and truly come to the boil, so I won't list everything else.

29th The US House of Representatives rejects the $700bn rescue plan

October:

2nd Mercury retrogrades back over its Venus conjunction point
3rd Congress passes the TARP rescue package.

6th Mercury conjunct Sun square to Jupiter 13Lib58.

The 6th was the Monday after the rescue package was signed. When the markets continued to fall, I think that was when I started to feel that this crisis is not going to be contained.

My feeling is that Mercury is completely in control at the moment, so I'll guess that, if stock markets steady tomorrow, they'll start to recover when it stations.

But if they don't steady tomorrow I'm thinking they'll go into free fall as it stations; followed by a downward drift until they reach a bottom around the 24th when it passes that Sun conjunction point; and they'll only start to turn up at the end of October after it's passed its retrograde point.

I don't really have a clue, but these are certainly stimulating times, and the guessing is fun (if you're not too involved).

Malcolm

I think it's interesting that on the same day that Mercury is S/D, 15 Oct, Jupiter starts to move faster than Saturn.

It's interesting also that, having turned retrograde so tightly conjunct Mars, Mercury will be turning direct in close semi-sextile to it.

I've never really made my mind up about semi-sextiles (and quincunxes - I tend to see them as being indirectly important, because a square from one will coincide with a sextile or trine from the other) but I think it has probably helped energise the whole period.

Malcolm

That's interesting, Ficina. Do you think it has anything to do with Growth or Property?

I have an interesting case with a young boy 14yrs of age where the doctors say that tests show that his kidneys are malfunctioning. They say that his condition is serious and that he is in the need of a transplant. If their diagnosis is not correct they can throw away everything that is written in the books on medicine.

But the boy has no symptoms of this condition!!

A horary was cast for October 12th, Asker, 59N50, 10E26. Time 17.05 LST. The Ascendant is 16AQ23 and the querent is asking regarding her Son, with 26GE41 on the 5th cusp. The 5th cusp is ruled by Mercury who is 8LI30 and retrograde. The kidneys are ruled by Libra. As we have observed, Mercury was conjunct Mars when he turned retrograde and we have noted in this thread several phenoma involving young children. 'Mads', as this young boy is called was taken ill on May 17th. It occured to me that 19 days had passed since Mercury turned retrograde and if I converted this to weeks it lead me to a circumstance that had occured close to May 26th. If I allow a little bit of time for Mercury's loss of motion and station - then this brings me close enough to the time when the boy was diagnosed faulty kidneys.

Now the question is whether the boys kidneys are in fact seriously damaged or there is something wrong with the diagnosis. I noted that 3 days was needed before Mercury turned direct and I have suggested that the mother should closely watch her Son for 3 weeks, leading up to Nov.9 and see whether there is any change in his condition or diagnosis here.

The mother does not believe her Sons kidneys are the problem. He is receiving treatment from a homeopath who says the same.

Do you think it has anything to do with Growth or Property?

Well, the Jupiter/Saturn cycle has always been linked with the business cycle - growth/recession, boom/bust, so I guess I was thinking along those lines although historically the key points have been the conjunctions and oppositions rather than the trines. I guess we could expect things to "pick up" in some way, perhaps reaching more of an equilibrium when Jupiter perfects the trine with Saturn. At the previous trine, Jupiter was stationary and Saturn was moving faster so somehow had the upper hand in a sense, leaving Jupiter behind and having to catch up and overtake.

I like this way of thinking: Mercury's second station carries the meaning of Jupiter being joined to Saturn by the latter two having the same speed.

That first trine from Saturn to Jupiter and the three squares from Mars, Mercury and Venus all happened within the space of 48 hours when Jupiter was within 1 minute of its station! That degree (12 Cap/Lib) will perhaps be worth watching for a while.

It's interesting also that Mercury stationed not only conjunct Mars, but with a one degree trine to Neptune. The last two or three weeks have certainly had a Neptunian flavour for me!

Malcolm

The last two or three weeks have certainly had a Neptunian flavour for me!

I will have to try that one next time I order an ice-cream!

following the Jupiter/saturn line of thought one might suppose a look to the second trine coming up might note recovery? is that right?

I'm thinking out loud here.

Granny

granny_skot wrote:following the Jupiter/saturn line of thought one might suppose a look to the second trine coming up might note recovery? is that right?

I'm thinking out loud here.

Granny

Hi Granny

I think it depends how the markets behave in the run-up to the US election; that trine comes two and a half weeks later on the 21st, still within about one and a half degrees of Uranus - and those first three weeks will have Mars, Sun and Mercury each in turn forming a cradle with Jupiter/Saturn/Uranus.

If the markets are relatively subdued between the end of Mercury retrograde and the election and they then take time to digest the results of the election, then the trine would certainly be an appropriate marker for recovery.

But my impression is that there are still too many people who believe that the basics are sound and that once the toxic debts are stripped out they can (after a couple of years recession) carry on as before. So I think it could equally mark the start of a new bull market, leading to ....

On Mercury retrograde and the rescue packages announced today: I can't help feeling that something like that would be better being revealed after the station rather than two days before it, even if markets had fallen further in the meantime.

This way people will be digesting what's been announced with an unconscious feeling of something going to happen; if they'd spent two more days working on it, the unconscious feeling would be of something that is past.

We'll see.

Malcolm

I"m afraid I do agree with you on timing. G.