TransmaniaconMC wrote: If you stick "Software" between Books and Links, it'd be street legal.

Well we do have software mentioned in the strap line on the forum homepage: ?Also, software, courses and forum suggestions?

But this seems to have moved its emphasis from the software, onto the pros and cons of different approaches. That's a weightier discussion altogether.

This happens in the best of threads though ? I'll just close my eyes.

Glad you are finding the forum useful.
Deb

TransmaniaconMC wrote:This is the "News" section, not the "Traditional" section.

That's why I said 'Speaking personally'. But again, it's not a question of 'the older the better', but of the internal coherence of a system.

Re: "If the Sun was hyleg in his chart..."

According to Bonatti, it is.

OK. Amazing as it may perhaps sound I am not familiar with the chart.

As for Mars, I don't know exactly what you mean by "...I should like to see Mars involved as well..." Are you saying that death by violence should only be shown by Mars?

It would depend on the type of violence, I think. (See Ptolemy's interesting discussion here:
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/R ... 4C*.html#9)

I can't speak for other systems, but in Topocentric Primary Directions, it is often the case that the CONTACT is more important than the specific aspect involved. If you have Mars in Taurus square to Saturn in Leo (natally), if later we see (TPD) Saturn TRINE Mars, I certainly would NOT expect good things to come of it, despite the trine aspect.

So what you are actually saying is that the kind of aspect does matter, but that a natal aspect overrides or colours one by direction? I would tend to agree with that.

In general, I think we would be well served by making a distinction between (a) the Topocentric method of direction (and house division), which is purely a mathematical issue affecting timing, and (b) specific views on interpreting directions not inherent in that method. As I stated before, I do have some objections to (a), but would happily set them aside if I could see the method work using traditional symbolism. And my preference for traditional symbolism means using both universal and particular significators (e.g., the malefics and rulers of the evil houses for illness or accidents).

Hello Deb,

You are always (okay, almost always ) to the point, which is good.

Re: "But this seems to have moved its emphasis from the software, onto the pros and cons of different approaches..."

I think that was inevitable. When Tzu Jan didn't find any real correspondence between his life and the aspects given in Morinus' Primary Directions, we started with a "con" (in terms of pros/cons) for that particular approach. As I also had used Morinus and had the exact same results, I could certainly relate. In between using Morinus and now, several other methods using a similar approach, but with certain "refinements" have been tested and one of them actually "worked." After spending untold hours trying to get various of these systems to produce something that looked good to this astrologer's eyes, I finally HAPPENED across one of them that (to me) was impressive.

After this time, it gives me pleasure to think that, something that works for me, might also work well for others.

You can't say what works best unless you try out everything. (...though I don't think that I'll go down that avenue of argumentation with my Wife)

I meant what I said, that I enjoy and appreciate the Forum. (Personally, I appreciate Astrological sites that aren't overabundant in esotericism, but focus on Astrology, how to do it, and what to do with it.)

Good Luck!

TransmaniaconMC

Hello Martin,

Thank you for the link. (it didn't quite make the right hyperlink, but the text was all there, so I got there)

Re: "...using traditional symbolism. And my preference for traditional symbolism means using both universal and particular significators (e.g., the malefics and rulers of the evil houses for illness or accidents...)"

We can't attempt to make the foot fit into any ole shoe. It must be whatever shoe FITS. In other words, we have to use whatever works.

For the most part, the symbolism that you speak of IS evident...but it is not limited to that. When you see the tightness of aspects and look at enough charts with THOSE events (repeated) and see that those ARE the aspects, then those are the ones that have to be used. It's EMPIRICAL.

Certainly as you scan through Isaac's listing of classical planets and aspects with incredibly tight orbs, you see that MANY of those are OBVIOUS to the event and in many cases, surely not necessary of any enhanced vision in order to SEE the connection. (This is philosophical) but to me, the particular aspect that is involved would also somehow have to relate to WHAT THE EVENT ultimately MEANS in the life of the native. (this is indirectly corroborated by natal configurations coloring future dynamic aspects)

At any rate, my point is if Bob has TPD 8th conjunct Mars when his Father dies, but Joe has TPD Saturn conjunct the MC when his Father dies, we still must symbolically see that they (the aspects) relate to the events. This should be undeniable, especially when the symbolism is quite true and the orbs are very small, denying coincidence. It doesn't mean that it doesn't work just because we can't make formulaic assumptions that this particular event is always expressed this exact way. (As above) connecting the 8th with "experiences of death" or Mars with male figures in the life are not "stretches" of the symbolism.

Honestly, the best way to approach it, (in my opinion) and especially since you already know a LOT about Primary Directions is to just look at many examples and SEE what aspects are there, TIGHTLY, at events. You'll see how this works in this instance (Topocentric Primary Directions) and honestly, it has the potential to help you in studying other Primary Directions as it might give some added insights of a general nature.

Have fun and again, thanks for your time.

TransmaniaconMC

I don't think we'll get much further with this. You insist on tightness of orb as an important criterion but are prepared to allow new planets, minor aspects, and (perhaps most importantly, looking at Isaac's list) an imaginary motion from west to east, against nature -- which will immediately double the number of directions, and hence the chance of a 'hit'. I insist on traditional planets, aspects and motion, but am prepared to allow greater orb -- which is in fact the way the Old Masters did it.

What we really need in order to judge the merits of a system is more exercises of the kind that Deb recently posted:
http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4620
(But even then, the merits of the system is inseparable from the skill of the person using it.)

Hello Martin,

I agree with you totally about more exercises. (With ample events so that a reliable rectification isn't a chore)

At any rate, only one comment to what you said... "which will immediately double the number of directions, and hence the chance of a hit"

If one takes Primary Directions, which CAN be narrowed down to a 2 month time frame and then allow "relevancy" all the way out to the period of a whole year, that sextuples the chance of a hit. This courts coincidence, assuming/attaching a connection where there likely isn't one.

I don't want to argue, Martin. I thank you for your time. Discussing topics with others often helps me to formalize my own knowledge or expression of certain ideas. I do hope you'll look into it more, I think you'll find it fascinating.

Have Fun!

TransmaniaconMC

Hi,

I read this on R. Kolev's website:

"From the rest, only the Topocentric system of directioning has presently an observable following. However, after close scrutiny, the Topocentric system of primaries turns out to be practically the same as the zodiacal Placidian Under the Pole directions. And formulating a mundo position in this system runs in unsurmountable obstacles."

Has anybody compared the Topocentric PDs to the Placidian(UnderThePole) ones?

rob

I have another question:
The PDs to the Angles(Asc-Desc, MC-IC) are the same in the Regiomontanian/Placidian PDs. Is this also true in case of the Topocentric PDs?

rob wrote:I have another question:
The PDs to the Angles(Asc-Desc, MC-IC) are the same in the Regiomontanian/Placidian PDs. Is this also true in case of the Topocentric PDs?

As far as I know, yes.

- Ed

Hi Rob

I am very grateful for this wonderful software. It is a great help even though I have several commercial softwares. With this and Martin Gansten's book, I feel at last able to use the Primary Directions. Previously, I had been trying for many years to apply them and getting nowhere.

I have had some very accurate results in my own chart, using the following : mundane directions, progressed Moon, placidian (semiarc), Ptolemy key. For instance :

- Venus direct conjunct Jupiter - difference 1 day - for selling a house. Venus is lord of 8th (inheritance) in 4th.

- Moon converse trine Lot of Fortune - difference 1 day - Starting an overseas journey and beginning of a new job. The Moon is lord of 10th.

- Mars direct conjunct AS - same year and season : autumn - Very dangerous accident to the head, as a child. I was saved by a miracle. I don't know the exact date of the accident.

With other events, I find significative directions with 2/3 months difference.

I have a question : For updating Morinus, is it necessary to uninstall it and then download and install it again ? Or is it possible to update it directly ? If it was, that would be nice, because it is always a little tricky to install a software.

Regards
Martine

Martine wrote: I have a question : For updating Morinus, is it necessary to uninstall it and then download and install it again ? Or is it possible to update it directly ? If it was, that would be nice, because it is always a little tricky to install a software.
Martine

Hi Martine,

I am glad you like the program.
You can have sevaral versions of the program e.g.:
D:\MorinusWinEng
D:\Astrology\MorinusWinEng

If you run D:\MorinusWinEng\morinus.exe then you will be running that particular version.
If you run D:\Astrology\MorinusWinEng\morinus.exe then you will be running that particular version.

I advise you to save your:
- horoscope files (.hor) [from the Hors directory unless you changed it to e.g. D:\Hors]
- placedb.dat [from the Res directory] You should only save this if you changed it.

The Morinus.opt file can also be saved if the options didn't change in the new version.
This will be the case today, because I am planning to upload the Placidian(underthepole) and some fixes, so the old Morinus.opt file won't work.

After you saved your files delete the MorinusWinEng directory and download the new one. Copy your .hor files to the downloaded MorinusWinEng/Hors and the placedb.dat to MorinusWinEng/Res. As I said you can have several versions at the same time on your winchester but that doesn't make much sense.

rob

Hi Rob

Thank-you for your answer. I have printed it and will follow the instructions.

It is a good thing that you can have 2 versions at the same time. Like this I can first download and install the new version and check everything is all right before uninstalling the old version.

I will wait for the Placidian (underthepole).

Martine