Alex,

On your website, you say that you look for Sun/Moon and ASC to start up with. I see that Annadeer uses also POF. And I have to say that my mother's name Adrienne showed up conjunct my Venus in Leo, ruling my 10th House and my Part of Mother in Taurus. Any evidence in your research for the Parts?
The exercice is not too difficult to do. But how do you know if you drive to the supermarket that you will encounter Crash and Wreck (just making up asteroids here!)
As for orbs, what is your stand on this?

Annadeer,
Can you tell me which selection you take from the drop-down menu on the extended settings of astro.com?


Thank you,
Ouranos

Hey, folks: you don't have to convince me that asteroids work-- to a certain degree (no pun intended.)

Unfortunately or fortunately it is my nature to play Devil's Advocate. Generally this is because if I find a topic really intriguing, I want to test or probe it to learn what and where are its strengths and weaknesses. If a proposition is robust, it stands up very well to scrutiny. If it has weaknesses, then probing or prodding should suggest where and how to strengthen them.

Did I mention that asteroid Nemesis conjuncts my Mercury within a degree? But then asteroid Hermes conjuncts my Jupiter within a degree, so it's not all negative.

I think you all worked out that if you click on an asteroid name in the Astrodienst asteroid drop-down menus, a list comes up that gives the origin of asteroid names. My name-sake asteroid was named for the daughter of a European astronomer, and the list does give a lot of astronomers who were not up there in the Big Ten (or Twenty) but who nevertheless actively discovered asteroids. Then they often named them for family members.

I think asteroid research does a better job of post-dicting than predicting, which maybe is a comment on the state of research, with few people like Alex and Annadeer who have made a really serious study of them.

More in a bit.

Happy New Year to you all.

HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!

Ouranos,
click on EXTENDED CHART SELECTION
open all boxes
and the asteroids are in the ADDITIONAL OBJECTS section

Waybread,
It's good to have someone play Devil's advocate
Indeed asteroids are better at postidicting, thus far -
- we are still figuring out how to use them
-- ways I see one can use them and have used them:

-- if you (or your client) want to date someone/ hire someone/ apply for a job/ seek a publisher/ befriend someone, throw in the relevant asteroid in your (or your client’s) birth chart/ lunar return/ solar return/ progressed. Is it conjunct Ixion or Nessus or square Saturn, stay away from him/her. Conjunct POF/ Venus/ Jup, give it a go. Of course, oftentimes the name doesn't show up at significant spots -- but again, let's leave that issue aside for now and work with what we have.
-- if you or your client hesitate 'which country/city should I go on holidays or move to?' -- do a similar check with the country’s/city’s name.
- If you play an instrument and hesitate, let's say, between picking up a piece of Bach or a piece of Chopin, check which asteroid is positioned best in your natal chart and your lunar return
- if you hesitate between studying X or Y, check the asteroids, which is better positioned
- do you want to know if a person is trustworthy, run some evil asteroids (cfr what I did for Pfizer CEO and Putin)
- Do you want to solve a mystery - throw in the asteroids in a horary or in the relevant birth chart and lunar return (cfr my Ettore Majorana Nazi hypothesis and my stolen glasses horary - I swear to God, both the Majorana conclusion and the stolen glasses conclusion came as a total surprise to me!)

For sure you can come up with other ways to use them

And even if asteroids are or were not terribly useful in predicting the future,
just the fact that they show up and in such an abundant, precise, undeniable and statistically relevant way, is (dreaming here) what could get scientists interested in astrology and (again, my wildest dream), the combo astrology (esp. asteroids) and quantum physics could help them get a step further in understanding the mysteries of the universe. Again, I keep believing that there must be a link between asteroids showing up in horoscopes and quantum probabilities.

Useful ideas, Annadeer. Unfortunately employers are supposed to go by the applicants' qualifications in relation to the actual job description, and you couldn't just tell a rejected job applicant you didn't like the look of her asteroids.

Also, with a horoscope, we don't know whether the native operates at the level of the bestial, terrestrial, or celestial.

Re: composer asteroids.

I actually try to practice the piano (classical) for an hour a day. I played for 9 years as a kid, then after a decades-long hiatus, I took it up again recently as a senior. It's been an interesting process because I am now much more conscious of the sheer mechanics of playing a piece. Some composers are great to hear, but they're too difficult for my level-- or their hands were much larger than mine.

I will probably never advance very far, regardless, because after inputting 10 composer asteroids into my chart, Muzio Clementi was the only one with a planetary hit. He's not considered one of the greats, but every beginning piano student learns Clementi's first sonatina. I took the unusual step of working my way through most of his sonatinas. I suppose that's meaningful. I am probably the foremost Clementi interpreter in our valley (pop. 15,000.)

Cheers.

Annadeer,

Thank you for the the tip on astro.com
And Happy New Year!

Waybread,

Piano is a good way to Handel the asteroids!
You will never B-flat!

Happy New Year

Ouranos, I don't use anything w/o mass in my interpretations, except the Angles, so I have no data on how asteroids might interact with Parts.

As to orbs, I am not a cosmic size queen. I don't differentiate among planetary bodies based on mass; I use the same orbs for asteroids as I do for planets. Once in consciousness, points have a relative equivalency. Think of it this way - you can fit more than 24,000 Mercurys inside Jupiter, but we don't give Jupiter a 24,000 times greater orb. Use whatever your standard is.

And Waybread, I agree - these buggers are hard to use for prediction. Partly it's the enormity of the subset you're dealing with, when casting blindly into the dark of the future. But I also have a lot of experience of looking ahead at what you might call "known unknowns", i.e. future preplanned events, as, say, upcoming elections. And while the major players are always present and highlighted on the day (to the extent that they have asteroid referents, of course), it's not easy to tell in advance who has the upper hand.

But perhaps that's just me, and I suck at prediction.

Thank you Alex for sharing your down-to-earth approach.

With James Webb launching and new guests coming for dinner, Chef Miller must be thrilled!

I am getting ready to have lunch with Tomhanks (12818), Megryan (8353) and James Bond (9007).

Happy New Year!
Ouranos

Fun stuff! (Are asteroids a 5th house matter?)

Ouranos, I'm just about ready to fire back some more music jokes. Stop me before then, please. Maybe you've seen this site: https://thoughtcatalog.com/juliet-lanka ... usic-puns/

Alex[/u]-- do you use primary directions? It's not a predictive technique I studied, but it seems to give really good results if the birth/event time is accurate.

Who here has asteroid Urania conjunct a planet or angle? She was the ancient muse of astronomy/astrology. (Mine is 2 degrees off Venus.)


A lot of asteroids, notably the first 100, are named for characters out of Roman/Greek mythology. At one point I was reading a lot of mythology and came to believe that the chthonic (underworld) goddesses got a bad rap today, having begun their careers as powerful earth mothers who were both womb and tomb; and then got demoted into grisly old hags. When I began plugging away at asteroids some years ago, I found asteroid Hel (Northern underworld goddess) and Rhea (daughter of Gaia, mom of Ceres) conjunct my sun.

Mythical figures generally have a story to tell-- sometimes several stories. I think it is well worth the effort to delve into the classics, Eddas, and other serious sources to learn about them.

Waybread, I love myths too -- got Urania conjunct Sun & Mercury, Astronomia conjunct NN, Astrowizard & Paracelsus conjunct Ascendant. Unfortunately, I also have Kassandra (the one who nobody believed) conjunct SUn

Alex thanks again for joining & sharing!!! my experience is if you add POF (which after all is not much different than Asc or MC -- and as it moves so fast, more relevant for more personal than slower objects) you will get even more spectacular results

Today’s experiment:
I ran the same asteroids I used for Putin & co (see my post on page 3) on Tony Fauci’s chart, plus Hyde (for Dr Hyde) and Faustocoppi (both for Dr Faustus and for Fauci)
Note, I was fairly neutral about this man. Here the results:
Faust, Hyde and Hiltner conjunct Sun, Athalia and Mamontov conjunct Mercury, Koronis conj Venus, Ixion conjunct NN


Then I decided to use a control group. I added the evil asteroids in the charts of the scientists mentioned in my post on page 2 of this thread. (A)
And next I added the science-related asteroids I used for the scientists in the charts of the evildoers mentioned on page 3 (B)
— plus, to have some more folks in the latter control group, I also added George Clooney, Amal Clooney, Rodney Dangerfield and Astrid Lindgren.

If you compare the results below with the way the asteroids showed up in the groups on page 2 and page 3, I think the relevance of the asteroids is clear (a few exceptions aside)

Here the results:
A. Asteroids used: Faust, Ixion, Mamontov, Attila, Athaliah, Tyranosaurus, Vishnu, Hiltner, Hipparchus, Augusta, Hybris (see my post on page 3 for the meaning of the asteroids)

Feynman: Ixion conjunct Mars! This makes total sense. He was known for his philandering and for sleeping with students. He would never have survived the Me-Too era.

Heisenberg: Athalia conjunct Sun, Hybris conjunct MC. Makes sense — he was controversial, suspected of helping the Nazis build the atomic bomb (some sources claim this has been proven)

Pauli: Hiltner and Hipparchus conjunct Mercury, ruler of Ascendant. There were two famous Hipparchus’s: one a dictator, one an astronomer. So maybe in his case it’s the astronomer -- he shows up several times more below. As for Hiltner, this surprised me at first -- but then I read he moved to Princeton because of the Nazis! So the Nazis did influence his intellectual life.

Bohr: Mars conjunct Tyranosaurus. He wasn’t known for being tyrannical at all, but he was a superior athlete (and I know nothing of his sexual life). Vishnu conjunct MC. Vishnu was not only the destroyer of worlds, he was also a creator and a prime deity of Hindu religion. And Bohr was fascinated with, influenced by, and an ardent student of the vedas (like many of his contemporary colleagues)

Tegmar: Vishnu conjunct Venus, Hipparchus conjunct Mercury (see remarks above about Vishnu and Hipparchus)

EInstein: Hybris conjunct Ascendant, Attila conjunct MC — the Hybris I understand, Attila I don’t get

Dirac: Vishnu conjunct Jupiter (see my remark under Bohr) - August and Hiltner conjunct Moon: his biography says that his mother was ‘smothering’!

Hubble: Hybris and Hipparchus conjunct Venus and Moon — Hipparchus again, can refer to the astronomer, Hybris makes sense — then like Dirac also Hiltner conjunct moon — although I didn’t find anything about his mom’s character, I did read that he never visited her, nor supported her, and his wife never even met her.

Dyson: Hipparchus conjunct Sun (again, must refer to the astronomer, not the dictator), Athalia conjunct Jupiter - don’t see the meaning of that

De Broglie: Attila conjunct Venus and Ascendant — he was known to be charming, so this surprised me — BUT he came from a family of high-ranking army men, and served many years in the army himself. Hiltner conjunct Mercury — I didn't see the meaning of that, but then I read that in 1944 he was elected to the Académie Française: 'Because of the deaths and imprisonments of Académie members during the occupation and other effects of the war, the Académie was unable to meet the quorum of twenty members for his election; due to the exceptional circumstances, however, his unanimous election by the seventeen members present was accepted.' So without himself thinking like Hitler, Hitler did play a role in his intellectual life.

Franklin: Tyranosaurus conjunct MC - don’t know that he was tyrannical, this may just refer to the giant importance of his work and person


B. Asteroids used: Quantz, Heraklitos, Kepler, Archimedes, Leibniz, Pythagoras, Demokritos, Fibonacci, Ptolemaeus, Plato


Xi Pin Ying: Heraklitos, Ptolemaeus and Fibonacci conjunct Venus (this surprises me, but I don’t know much about him) - Plato and Quantz conjunct Jupiter

Kim Jong Un: Mercury conjunct Pythagoras and Demokritos (makes no sense to me, I must admit)

Putin: Archimedes conjunct Mars

Fauci: Kepler and Demokritos conjunct NN, Quantz conjuynct Mars

Georges Clooney: Plato conjunct Sun, Demokritos conjunct Ascendant

Amal Clooney: Plato conjunct Jupiter

Astrid Lindgren: Fibonacci conjunct Mars, Leibniz conjunct Venus

Rodney Dangerfield: none of the above, hahahaha BUT he has Thalia, Muse of Comedy, conjunct his stellium Mars, Jupiter, Saturn and POF!!!

again, compare to the abundant way in which the science-related asteroids showed up in the charts of the scientists on page 2...

Waybread, I don't use primary directions, or really any sort of additional techniques, the exception being solar returns, for the current POTUS, whoever that may be at any given time.

There's just too much to say with asteroids alone, it's never-ending.

And actually, yes, I do have a prominent Urania - it's exactly on my Descendant, exactly squared my Sun, and exactly sesquiquadrate my Moon.

Anna, first - amazing research, but you clearly have WAY too much time on your hands! Haha! And try Hilaritas 996 for Dangerfield; she shows prominently in lots of comics' charts. (I'm just working up an Aster-Obit on Betty White for the site, and she has it at station, in a Grand Trine with Saturn and Mercury; Thalia squares the Sun.)

I did use Parts many decades ago, and found them interesting. But my goal now, similar to yours, is to validate the use of asteroids, first to the astrologic community at large, but also potentially for a wider audience. So I like to keep it "clean", without additional distractions.

Parts, as mathematical derivations (subtract this from that, etc), are distinctly non-scientific, with no mass. Maybe they work, but there's no earthly reason they should. Created by ancient Arab astrologers with only seven things to look at and, yes, you guessed it - too much time on their hands!

Alex haha, I actually don't have ENOUGH time

Thanks for introducing me to Hilaritas, didn't know her/it. Dangerfield has her trine his Jupiter. Turns out I have Hilaritas on my Descendant, don't know what that says about my love life

We're zooming in on different things -- I rarely use anything else than conjunctions for asteroids, and rarely use bigger planets -- because everybody born the same day would have the same asteroid conjunct that planet -- unless the asteroid happens to be very fast, checking that would take even more time. But it seems your method works well, so I may look more into that.

As for parts, I don't use any other than POF, which is just the Ascendant of the Moon, so why would it be less scientific than the Ascendant? And Tesla conjunct ELon Musk's Pof, Astrowizard conjunct EInstein's and Hubble's Pof, seem to score points for using it.