Hi there - thanks for your comments on Planetdance. I have coded the Ed Greek Module and I'm happy to take a look at your problem. If you can send me any chart details where the Master of the Nativity is wrong I will see if I can improve the code. It would be best to send them by private message, unless the charts are in the public domain.

All the best. Ed

astralwanderer wrote:Hi there - thanks for your comments on Planetdance. I have coded the Ed Greek Module and I'm happy to take a look at your problem. If you can send me any chart details where the Master of the Nativity is wrong I will see if I can improve the code. It would be best to send them by private message, unless the charts are in the public domain.

All the best. Ed

Sure Sir, I will posted here in public. Btw, I want to say THANK YOU THANK YOU so much to you for your software, it helps so so much, I do use it alot, so I really appreciate it. Planetdance is like the best free astrology software I ever know exist out there. So I am very grateful for your developing and coding of the software.

The second screenshot is directly from the Planetdance result. I know the result they use general rules, but my case it the exception I guess, because I happen to have a chart where the ruler of my Ascendant (Cancer) is the Moon, and my Moon is in 12th.

12th house is the weakest house of all the houses, and 12th is going away from 1st, it aversion to 1st and 1st house cannot see or make aspect to the 12th house at all. Letting a planet in the 12th house to be the Master of Nativity (Oikodespostes) is like that planet driving your ship while blinded folded (1st house cannot see the 12th house).

In Mrs. Demetra George book. Ancient astrologers agreed that the Master of Nativity cannot be a planet in the 12th house--it immediately disqualifies! As 12th house it the weakest house and it not strong enough to sustain or provide the vital force necessary to qualify a planet as Master of Nativity which is the Oikodespostes.

Here the screenshot, I post here let see what other people think. Especially those who has read Mrs. Demetra George book.

My Moon in 12th, hence it disqualify to be the Oikodespostes. Actually any planets in 12th house is simply just not strong enough to carry the whole chart.
Also that Sun in 9th of mine should be the Predominator, as Sun has his Joy in 9th. Didn't Valens said Sun in 9th qualify since that is the Sun Joy house?





eta: remove the screenshot of the software result of my chart due to it has my birthdate time and birth location on it.

Sorry I just have to make another comment on this for discussion since this thread is about the Master of Nativity. And I just bought another ancient astrology book and read it.

I will resay what Mrs. Demetra book said in her Volume 2 book in the last chapters: Ancient astrologers agreed that the Master of Nativity (Oikodespostes) cannot be a planet in the 12th house. As 12th house it the weakest house and it not strong enough to sustain or provide the vital force necessary to qualify a planet as the Master of Nativity.

Now, I just read a book by Julius Firmicus Maternus, I believe he is an ancient astrologer back in Greek or Roman time, and this book got translate directly from Greek/Roman language to English. May I ask who is Firmicus Maternus? Anyways, I'm sure he is hella alot better than Pop modern Tiktok astrology. So I chose to believe what he said.

I will quote direct this from this book: [[ You must carefully observe the ruler of the chart, whom the Greeks call Oikodespostes (which is the Master of Nativity).
I shall explain this with all the information from the ancient scholars so that you can find the ruler of the chart. Some have said that the ruler of the chart is the planet which is located in favorable houses of the chart, in his own house or his own terms. But some debate that the ruler of the chart is the one in whose terms the Sun and Moon are found, that is, the Sun in the daytime and the Moon at night. ]]

That the exact quotes from the book. I not sure what he means by "terms" of the Sun and Moon, I'm guessing he means the bounds?

Neither way, if go by what Firmicus Maternus said the Oikodespostes of the chart is the planet which located in a favor house, in his own house or in his own term.
Clearly this means the Scorpio Mars in my chart, Mars is in his own house here and it it rulership domicile sign. 5th house TRINE 1st house, in his book he said: [5th house has a powerful aspect with the ascendant. The house is aspected very powerfully to the ascendant, namely, in Trine.]
Of if go by the later, Sun in daytime and Moon at night, then clearly the Sun in my 9th house, I'm a daychart.

Sorry, that Moon in 12th do NOT qualify to be the Master of Nativity, when Demetra book said it that 12th house is NOT strong enough to sustain or provide the vital force necessary to qualify as the Master.

And it this book I read of Firmicus Maternus, I'm guessing he one of those very ancient astrologer.

Hi fromChina,

You are right, Firmicus is one of the ancient astrologers (c.280-c.360) (his work falls between the time of Porphyry and Paulus of Alexandria); according to A History of Horoscopic Astrology by James Holden he was "a native of (Syracuse?) Sicily,...a Roman lawyer of the senatorial class and an amateur astrologer" who wrote his text between 334-355AD, translating material from the Greeks to send on to his friend, Lollianus Mavortius.

According to Holden, Firmicus had minimal knowledge of Ptolemy's work and says "The Mathesis is the lengthiest astrological treatise that has come down to us from the classical period" and that it "could perhaps be characterized as a collection of lengthy excerpts from the earlier Greek astrologers." Firmicus did "not set forth any systematic way to read a chart....Nevertheless, we are given much material that is not found in the earlier writers whose books have come down to us."

Happy reading

I will posted here in public. Btw, I want to say THANK YOU THANK YOU so much to you for your software, it helps so so much, I do use it alot, so I really appreciate it. Planetdance is like the best free astrology software I ever know exist out there. So I am very grateful for your developing and coding of the software.

Thanks for your kind feedback. I will take a look at this for you.

Best wishes. Ed

Hi there - I just need to check that we are talking about the same things. My understanding is that the predominator and oikodespotes are two different concepts. In planetdance, the oikodespotes is the ruler of the chart (ascendant lord), hence, in your chart, the Moon. I don't think that it's relevant that the lord is in the twelfth house. This just needs to be interpreted. I don't think its anything to do with the strength or otherwise of the lord of the ascendant.

The predominator is definitely about strength, and your Sun and Moon, which are generally to be preferred as predominators, are in cadent houses. This diminishes their strength, hence discounted as potential predominators. The next choice is the ascendant. In some cases the MC can be the predominator but this is rare.

There is an element of choice however. The astrologer ultimately has to make a judgement about things like the predominator. From memory, the predominator routine in Delphic Oracle is included as a guide, but there is an option to make a choice depending on the individual's judgement.

The lord of the ascendant is a different matter however. One can't choose to have a different ruler for Cancer, for example. It's the Moon, wherever that planet is placed in the chart.

I don't think Planetdance is wrong as such, because I can't give an alternative ruler for the oikodespotes.

However, the software includes the option to use the bound lord of the ascendant degree as the oikodespotes, and the ruler as the oversight. In your case Venus would then become the oikodespotes and Moon would become the oversight. This is a variation that I believe was in classical astrology, but I couldn't give you a reference.

You can make the switch by going to Display Options in the main menu and choosing Switch Oikodespotes/Oversight.

Thank you Sir astralwanderer,

That is fine, I love your software regardless.

The Master of Nativity is the Oikodespostes.

In Mrs. Demetra George book Volume 2, she clearly said in the last chapters of her books: Ancient astrologers agreed that the Master of Nativity cannot be a planet in the 12th house--it immediately disqualifies! As 12th house it the weakest house and it not strong enough to sustain or provide the vital force necessary to qualify a planet as Master of Nativity (which is the Oikodespostes).

I'll go by what Mrs. Demetra George book said.

And I'm sorry, I believe Valens said Sun in 9th qualify as the Predominator (Sun has Joy in 9th house, as Moon in 3rd house). I am a daychart, and my Sun in 9th house, it doesn't matter if it cadent house as Sun is in his Joy house. My Sun is the Predominator, not the Asc.

The reason why Planetdance software has my Moon in 12th as the Oikodespostes, because it set my Ascendant as the Predominator. But I believe my Sun in 9th is the Predominator, not the Asc.

And when my Sun in 9th is the Predominator, then Jupiter is my Oikodespostes. That Jupiter is in it own bound and in 7th house which is an "angular" house is MORE qualify to be the Oikodespostes than an Asc ruler in the weakest house 12th house.

But thank you again Sir, really appreciated. I still love your software regardless, still have it, and still use it everyday. Thank you again for the awesome software, truly.

Hi there - I'm working on an update for the Ed Greek module which will allow users to manual choose the predominator - the options will be: use the calculation; Sun; Moon. I think this will help you. Ed

astralwanderer wrote:Hi there - I'm working on an update for the Ed Greek module which will allow users to manual choose the predominator - the options will be: use the calculation; Sun; Moon. I think this will help you. Ed

Thank you Sir, that would be very helpful, but sorry for the inconvenient.

I did say I love your software regardless, in fact, it my favorite software, still use it everyday. So so much functions to learn in there.

Sir, how to get the Essential Dignities table points for a chart in your software, does it has a function for that Sir? How to get the points added up of the Essential Dignities of the planets in the chart.

Thank you Sir.

Hi there - I hope that this will be ready soon. You will find the other feature you are looking for in Horoscope-Medieval-Medieval Traditional Chart.

We have a forum for Planetdance where you can ask questions about the software. It might be helpful to register there as I tend to post more on that forum. You will also get information about update releases.

The forum is at: https://forum.jcremers.com/

Thanks. Ed

Thank you Sir, awesome I will sign up to be a member in the software forum right now, I really like the software.

I did see the Essential Dignities table under Medieval Traditional Chart.

But I was looking for adding up the calculation of total points. Like this:
Domicile/Ruler: +5
Exaltation: +4
Triplicity: +3
Term: +2
Face: +1
Detriment: -5
Fall: -4

Isn't there a way we can get an update in the software where it calculate the points for us?

Thank you Sir.

Hi there - you will find the option under the Data menu, Planetary Scores Analysis. This is in the Medieval Chart module.