I think the real issue is that Americans identify with 4 July 1776 as the birth of a seperate nation. It also works pretty well in a lot of astrological comparisons for the country.

One could argue were we really a seperate Country until the signing of the paris Peace Treaty? or the ratification of the constitution? or maybe even after the War of 1812?

but really Americans identify with July the 4th. and a midday chart is probably a pretty fair one to consider.

Also a birth of a country is not necessarily the same as the birth of a child, and an exact time is far less probable.

Just a thought,

Granny

Hi Robin,

thanks for the Libra links .....So I find the astrology amateur here and I skipped over the personality correlations, such as Bill Gates does well because he has Mercury in Libra. Poor!

So neither of these articles appear to have argued their corner effectively.

You will get no arguments from me on that score. I just thought I would put them up to show a Libra rising rising chart has been proposed. However, neither article presents a case I find at all convincing.

When I get some time I will post up the main historical sources used to support the different charts for July 4th.

Just to toss another Monkey wrench into the equation, hitler and I also have Libra risings, and I certainly hope no one would compare me to that person! I think one should note that while particular rising gives one a particular set of outward appearance and demeanor, it's also aobut how a native uses those things.

granny the instigator.

Hi Granny,

Fair enough but we are talking nations here not people.

I guess the nearest equivalent for the population of a democracy to affect how your country is perceived is your choice of elected leaders...........

Mark