Hello again,

now I see it what you mean by the 'critical 19th degree' I' ve just re - read the article ( I read it for the first time a couple of years ago). It's allegedly critical because of the position of Lilith on it, which is made 'responsible' for just about every war the US has ever waged (or at least, the major ones).

In my opinion, that's no astrology because the readings presented hinge mainly upon one allegedly crucial element, i.e. Lilith which is in reality nothing more than a hypothetical point. All the other constitutive/important elements of a chart are relegated into a mere subsidiary role to Lilith and her significations.

It does appear convincing and well-thought out, though. I actually used to believe (after reading this article for the first time) that Lilith is a very powerful and important element of every chart.
Now I know this is of no value to me anymore.
Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinion and preferences


Regards,
Goran

Hi Yuzuru,

President Obama's astrocartography Pluto line runs through the Koreas.

The concern about North Korea has been an ongoing subject in some of the other astrological discussion forums. Of special interest was the period from early to mid November in the lead-up to the G20 Summit.

The turbulence in No Korea is primarily due to the ailing health of NK leader Kim Jong Il and his desire to firmly plant his son Kim Jong un as his successor. Because of the son's total lack of experience in military affairs, this is not going down well with the communist states military elite, hence, a power struggle is ensuing. That power struggle is dangerous for all in the region......

N Korea ?May Disrupt G20 Summit

Sunday Express
Oct. 4, 2010

North Korea may launch provocative acts as it carries out its leadership succession plan, and could disrupt a G20 summit in South Korea next month, Seoul?s defence minister has said.

Continued??

http://tinyurl.com/2ap3mte

Hi Cor Scorpii,

I understand. I think you may be taking that Lillith degree concept a little out of context. The author is clearly of the opinion that Lillith is deeply entwined with the US Mars-Neptune square because of its two degree orb of contact. When you consider that into the calculation, it may not be as simplistic as you think. In any case, I can't imagine a more vivid and powerful demonstration of this - except when describing the onset of the Iraqi war. Pluto was in the process of going stationary direct at 19 Sag just several days before the onslaught of conflict on March 20th, 2003.

On second thought.....

I suppose we can methodically analyze all the nuances and merits of the aspects piece by piece, but what I'm really wondering is this - can anyone offer, or more precisely put, be willing to offer their thoughts on the December 29th Moon/Saturn-Mars square chart? I think that would be far more constructive. We are just one week away to what could be an explosive situation. The pressure is building to a possible confrontation sooner rather than later......

South Korea Brazen In Defense Of Military Drills Near North's Border

Seoul says it will meet any 'provocation' by North Korea with force, after recent exercises resulted in exchanges of fire

The Guardian
Dec 22, 2010

South Korea will step up the pressure on North Korea by staging another huge live-fire drill close to a border region gripped by the worst tensions since war devastated the peninsula 60 years ago.

F-15 jets, K-1 tanks, artillery and hundreds of troops will take part in the military exercise tomorrow ? the biggest of the year and the second this week, despite accusations of provocation and threats of retaliation from Pyongyang.

The act of brinkmanship risks an escalation of conflict after two deadly attacks by North Korea and warnings from neighboring nations that the peninsula is slipping dangerously close to war.

Continued.....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/de ... lls-border
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can anyone offer, or more precisely put, be willing to offer their thoughts on the December 29th Moon/Saturn-Mars square chart

It may bring something nasty, or it may not. I would rather look at the chart of the exact Mars/Saturn square.
For what it's worth, I'd judge it as a long lasting frustration mingled with fear and vindictiveness coming out as if under large pressure, shooting out like a geyser of hot water or volcanic eruption - Moon/Saturn conjunction in a human sign whereas Saturn is out of sect and the Moon has just entered Via Combusta; very bad testimonies concerning the Moon, general significator of generation and corruption. When it separates from Mars, which doesn't receive it(Mars aspects the Moon out of Moon's detriment, and the same goes for Moon aspecting Mars - mutual declaration of war and irreconcilable enmity) it bumps into exalted Saturn which does receive it. In a sense from very bad to only a bit better, this is what it looks like to me. If 'better' is an appropriate term when it comes to conjunction with the greater malefic which is out of sect...

Regards,
Goran

Hi Goran,

Thank you for the response.

I chose the exact Moon-Mars square in this chart because as a general rule, the moon often serves as a trigger mechanism to the larger aspects, which in this case is the Mars-Saturn square. We're talking about a half degree orb between Mars and Saturn in applying formation. Sufficient enough stress for the faster moving lunar body to activate the square. The midpoint is right at the 1 Sag degree which has the potential to activate the chart of the November 23rd NK shelling of Yeonpyoeng island (the 11/23/10 chart Sun at 0 '50 Sag.). I wonder if this has relevance?

What appears significant to me is that tr Saturn is right on top of S Korea's 12th house natal Mars in the midst of this Mars Saturn square. Could that indicate a surprise attack? The simultaneous Mercury station at 19 Sag makes the issues more coherent. A redressing as it were of the events of last month. The could prove to be inconsequential, but there is a lot of activity there and it does make one wonder.

One added note of interest. Kim Jong Il assumed the position as leader of the DRPK (Democratic People's Republic of Korea) with the death of his father on July 8, 1994. The chart's natal Sun position at 16 Cancer is being t squared by the Mars-Saturn square on Dec 29th. Because this chart represents the current regime in North Korea it should be interesting to watch developments in the region, especially towards the end of the month.

What appears significant to me is that tr Saturn is right on top of S Korea's 12th house natal Mars in the midst of this Mars Saturn square. Could that indicate a surprise attack?

Could be, but to me it looks like the S. Korea's army(or even the entire nation) is currently suffering a lot of stress/frustration for not being able to respond to the previous assault in an appropriate way. The feeling of inadequacy and impotence, mingled with shame and the desire to even up the score are on the rise, especially given the Mars's position in the 12th which in itself, doesn't provide an uninhibited outlet for a planet that's trapped inside.
This theme of 'having to prove something to ourselves, to them and to the entire world' might have disastrous consequences in the coming days.
It is in this light that I view the repeated live-fire drills that have been going on for some time already and there's no end to it in sight, it seems.
Mars pushes forward, Saturn slows down and stops - not a desirable combination to have right at this time. I imagine it crying 'we have to show them who's the boss or we'll end up being destroyed' or something similar to that - the feeling of humiliation and 'defeat' stemming from two previous clashes could be a very dangerous one.

Regards,
Goran

Hi Goran,

I suppose one can apply any number of interpretations into the mix. The classic Mars-Saturn square when in harsh aspect to a countries military, as I understand mundane astrology; seems confrontational to me. It has the potential to spark a conflict.

There are so many variables in this that I'm not sure one can be absolutely sure one way or the other. Example in point.... the Mars transit at 16 Capr. forms a trine to NK's natal Sun (16 Virgo) and a quincunx to progressed Pluto (16 Leo). Those angles alone with Mars at the epicenter appears war-like to me. Given the current tensions in the region I'm not convinced this is just a stale-mate situation as you are suggesting. Anyone else like to contribute to this conversation?

I never actually suggested a stalemate situation - I said this Saturn/Mars is highly explosive in itself ( in one of my previous posts anyway) I guess you had this impression because I concentrated maybe a bit too much upon its psychological meaning. The feelings of frustration and impotence may very well lead to dangerous moves.

A Steven has pointed out, and as I also wrote day or two before he posted his analysis, Mars/Saturn square is always highly destructive. The fact that Moon/Saturn/ Mars are angular in the Capricorn ingress chart convinces me in a strong possibility the hostilities will resurface again in the period up to next Aries ingress.

Regards,
Goran

Hi Goran,

Thanks for the feedback. Sorry. My mistake. I misread that. I hope you don't mind a little helpful suggestion. To better understand what you are trying to say and in the interest of having a free flowing exchange of ideas, you may want to simplify your language a little bit.

Anyway, back to the subject at hand.... in a March 2003 article, Nancy Sommers of the Starlightnews website wrote:

"..... In the North Korean chart (referring to the 9/10/48 chart), the progressed South Node is now within a one-degree orb of natal Mars (4Scorpio20). Thus, any major transit can activate the potential in this aspect for aggressive action, paranoid thinking, distrust, and reckless behavior. The powerful Pluto station of January through May (2003), sitting at 19 Sagittarius, is semisquare to the North Korean Mars/progressed South Node, intensifying these qualities"

At the time, under discussion was the March 2, '03 incident involving a US spy plane intercepted by four North Korean jet fighters over the Sea of Japan. See related article: http://tinyurl.com/2bpj7vo

Whichever chart one chooses to use, be it the 9/9/48 or 9/10/48 chart, the backward motion of the progressed nodes are now fully locked in to a conjunction with North Korea's natal Mars in semi-square to its natal Jupiter. Hence the emphasis and gravity of the November 23rd NK bombing incident and the upcoming Dec 29th Mercury station all at the 19 Sagittarius degree. This is a very sensitive area of North Korea's chart. Interestingly enough, South Korean Pres Lee's progressed Pluto (issues related to nuclear weapons) is at 4 Leo in square to North Korea's Mars.

Hello, again

I find it very interesting that the coming Mars/Saturn square(30.12.) puts bot of these on the cardinal angles (once more!). Saturn in the 1st, Mars in the 4th. In my opinion it is highly significant that these strong MA/SA contacts (above all, the conjunction on the 1st degree of a cardinal sign Libra) happen in the profected year already ruled by Saturn (I'm referring to Aries ingress of 1948 here and elsewhere in the text). As already mentioned, the two are conjunct there in Leo, in the 8th.

I'm inclined to believe the most dangerous period is from 5. - 9. January of 2011, when the Sun activates the Mars/Saturn square, or the day of the exact Mars/Saturn square itself - 30.12.2010.

According to mundane firdaria, both Koreas are currently under the influence of the Moon(period lasting 9 years, from the 61 up until the 70th year of 'existence').

The Moon is posited in the 7th (by division, Cancer intercepted) in its domicile, but in the 8th by whole sign - the house naturally signifying death/destruction thus gains prominence/angularity. Not good.

When the Moon changes sign and enters Leo, its first application is to Venus in Taurus by square; however, I'm inclined to believe the conjunction (in this case with Mars/Saturn in Leo in the 8th) trumps and overpowers the influence of Venus. If I follow Masha'llah's way of dealing with committing of disposition, I get the same result anyway - the Moon applies to Venus(no reception) but she applies further to retrograde Saturn and commits her disposition to him; he is unable to receive anything and returns her the light, thus destroying whatever was entrusted to him by both the Moon and Venus.
And greater malefic, posited in the 8th, in conjunction with Mars, both retrograde, becomes a true monster.

So if the Moon's initial state and its application(s) should signify for the time of its mundane firdar's rulership, this is certainly not good news.

I interpret this as a period of increased tensions with other nations(enemies), coupled with sporadic attempts at reaching peaceful solution by negotiations (square with dignified Venus in the 5th - embassies, envoys ) which ultimately fail and end up in a war catastrophe (the final conjunction with both malefics without reception in the 8th).

The Moon assumed rulership with the Aries ingress of 2008, so one should also take a look at its position there in order to ascertain its significations for the following 9 years of rulership(this is how I understood the principle from one of Steven's previous posts here on Skyscript - Steven, please correct me if I'm mistaken

In this chart, the Moon is in the second in Virgo, signifying the resources of a nation, together with Saturn retrograde(the issues of scarcity of provisions/poverty as a main thrust behind the engagement with 'others' - the Moon's dispositor is Mercury in the 8th, conjunct Venus. What they really want to get with their 'shows of force' is the resources of 'others'). It separates from Venus on the cusp of the 8th in Pisces and applies by trine to Jupiter in the 6th in Capricorn. Jupiter rules the 8th.
Jupiter doesn't receive the Moon, and its position in the house signifying injuries and enemies/armies speaks for itself; the worst testimony is its signification of death/and destruction. Here we have a repetition of the theme given in the chart of 1948 - the final receiver of the disposition is the lord of death and also natal ingress's ruler of lot of war.

These 'tests of strength' to force others to lucrative concessions (Jupiter as a ruler of substance of others) will eventually lead to death and destruction within this period of Moon's firdar rulership. As Steven pointed out, the million dollar question is - When?

Steven has already explained he believes the next Aries ingress will bring the escalation. I agree with him, whereby I'm also wary of this current quarter, especially because the Moon is again trapped among the malefics and this topic is constantly occuring in the charts I've mentioned.
Including, of course, Aries ingress of this year, where the chart luminary, the Moon is on Algol ('piled up corpses', 'Satan's head'...) as the ruler of the 7th. It commits its disposition to Sun(upon entering Gemini), the Sun commits its disposition to Mars which receives it, then Mars hands over to Saturn by sextile and Saturn is retrograde so it returns the light to Mars, thus frustrating the initial intention of the Moon and destroying what was entrusted to him. As the final receiver of disposition, Saturn decides on the matter - negatively, by giving Mars in the angle of the 7th the opportunity to act according to his will and disposition.

Regards,
Goran