If I may be as rude as proposing an exercise of foresight astrology:

This charts is of a client of mine. She has a non-average "friends theme" in her live. Based on the chart, the topic of friends is good or bad?

For instance:
good topic - the friends are people who raise to power, have good luck, fame, or in other way have outstanding good life

bad topic - the friends are people who fall from power, have bad luck, die suddenly or have health problems, or something like that.

Olivia wrote:I've a young client who has a besieged and highly dignified 7 ruler, Mercury, conjunct Mars in Virgo, in near-partile trine to a highly dignified Saturn in Capricorn that rules his 1st house of Aquarius. To say that his life is unhappy would be a bit of an understatement.

If that Mars is in an application moving toward exact trine then this is a definition of "overcoming" according to Antiochus and if Mars is the malefic contrary to the sect then it seeks to harm the native and it asks Mercury to help and Mercury being the host helps Mars overcome the native.

Yazuru wrote:

For instance:
good topic - the friends are people who raise to power, have good luck, fame, or in other way have outstanding good life

bad topic - the friends are people who fall from power, have bad luck, die suddenly or have health problems, or something like that.

Hi Yazuru:

The present chart is a little far from our initial idea of dicussing reception.
Jupiter is received by Mars because he in the domicile of Mars: but Jupiter do not have any dignity in Mars?house, so there is not a mutual receptinon. There is no planets in the 11th, except by the Part of Fourtune...
So I idid ot get your point!

Clelia
best

Cl?lia

Hi, Clelia

as you said, most of this discussion is about reception; not only about mutual reception. And many members declared that "reception, disposition, etc, are all the same". So, if they want to try, yes, I think is a good exercise.

Actually, being in Mars' house and term plus they're conjunct - Jupiter is both received and disposited by Mars.

Mars isn't received by Jupiter, though.

zoidsoft wrote:If that Mars is in an application moving toward exact trine then this is a definition of "overcoming" according to Antiochus and if Mars is the malefic contrary to the sect then it seeks to harm the native and it asks Mercury to help and Mercury being the host helps Mars overcome the native.

Curtis, just a little doubt, cause I do not have Antiochus. If it is Saturn the malefic in sect, and given a besiegment, but the native's ruler in application (to Saturn), would it be the same, a overcoming (with the receiver aiding Saturn's task as well)? I ask this because except by being retrograde, Saturn can not apply itself to noone.

It is interesting this kind of rationale (if I grasped it correctly) cause it defines reception in a broader light, where the received planet is attended by it's dispositor, but that can result as harmfull, if the planet received is inimical to the ascendant or it's ruler. That would not be the case in a mutual reception, where both have obligations to each other.

PFN wrote:

zoidsoft wrote:If that Mars is in an application moving toward exact trine then this is a definition of "overcoming" according to Antiochus and if Mars is the malefic contrary to the sect then it seeks to harm the native and it asks Mercury to help and Mercury being the host helps Mars overcome the native.

Curtis, just a little doubt, cause I do not have Antiochus. If it is Saturn the malefic in sect, and given a besiegment, but the native's ruler in application (to Saturn), would it be the same, a overcoming (with the receiver aiding Saturn's task as well)? I ask this because except by being retrograde, Saturn can not apply itself to noone.

It is interesting this kind of rationale (if I grasped it correctly) cause it defines reception in a broader light, where the received planet is attended by it's dispositor, but that can result as harmfull, if the planet received is inimical to the ascendant or it's ruler. That would not be the case in a mutual reception, where both have obligations to each other.

It would be easier if you had a chart because I don't quite follow what it is exactly that is beseiged. A planet overcomes if it is moving toward another planet and it is forming a figure (aspect) that perfects. This happens when a faster planet is in superior position casting a sinister aspect to the slower planet. If the faster planet separates from the slower moving planet then it is not overcoming (it might be surpassing). A planet in superior position can overcome. What this means depends upon what that planet is trying to accomplish in the chart. If it is a malefic contrary to the sect, it generally seeks to harm (depending upon the eminence of the native).

yuzuru wrote: This charts is of a client of mine. She has a non-average "friends theme" in her live. Based on the chart, the topic of friends is good or bad?

Yuzuru,
I've been braking my beginner's brains over this one. Would you mind giving your view of it, as there doesn't seem to be any other input. I'd really like to know.

Jupiter is peregrine and received by a very strong Mars, but I'm not sure if it can be seen as a 10th house planet. If not then Jupi is cadent and that's no good. It is also besieged, and that's no good either right? Mars is ruler of 3, so maybe the native's friends are supported by powerful and feisty siblings or neighboors. The friends may be religious zealots (Jupi in a fixed sign in 9)...
If Jupi is considered a 10th house planet it's much stronger accidentally, but it would still be besieged..

Hi, Yukionna

Yuzuru,
I've been braking my beginner's brains over this one. Would you mind giving your view of it, as there doesn't seem to be any other input. I'd really like to know.

A thousand times better to be a beginner with eager to learn and look at real charts, then to be an armchair astrologer :-P

I will PM you the answer and to everybody who wants to take a try.

Jupiter actually isn't besieged - it would have to have its last separating aspect from Saturn to be that, and its closest applying aspect to Mars, or vice-versa.

Mars is closest applying, but the square to Venus is closest separating - ergo no besiegement.

Given they're on the MC, that would point to being well-known, problem is, I don't trust Jupiter and Mars together as far as I can throw them, and Mars may be in rulership but it's the out of sect malefic.

The guess would be politics of some sort, I agree with the above poster that the native lives near them, maybe there's a connection through siblings, and I'd guess that money's involved somehow - probably beneficial for the native, but ultimately these people are going to be a detriment, especially to her home life, even if they have support now - and from at least some quarters, they do.

If she's married, there's a connection to/conflict with her husband about them.

Best I can come up with is good luck for bad reasons, but it will turn bad - if this is a current situation. If it's a past situation, it doesn't look favourable, but that could be my own bias with these two planets - I always think of them as a 'holy war' of some sort - even when the participants are atheists.

Please PM me and tell me how wrong I am. I dislike seeing bad things in people's charts.

Tnx Olivia, I understand the concept of besiegment better now