Stefan wrote:

I have watched Cochrane Before and he is very pleasant to listen to.

In his video about the two zodiacs he did not take a stand for or against but held his mind openminded in the issue. He suggested that taking some random charts for wellknown people and claiming the best zodiac fits would not do. Instead he suggested to let the software do controlled research with extreme sampling. Doing searches for charts with much emphasis on certain signs.

You have the right idea, Stefan, but from past research I've done myself, I know that asking for the Sun, Moon and Ascendant produces results that are not very helpful. This is because the position of the ascendant lord is more important than the ascendant sign, and the Moon is very much influenced by aspects from planets and its nakshatra position.

I have used the computer selection approach in my posts on the sidereal forum for the Sun and ascendant in nakshatras. Sometimes the results are interesting and sometimes they seem to be a dud.

My computer searches are in the 42,000 chart ADB database, and I would be delighted if someone would run searches in the tropical zodiac. But this discontinued database runs only on XP computers, and only a few of us are still running the program on old computers.

At any rate, with pre-determined parameters, I would be happy to compare tropical searches you can run with Solar Fire with sidereal searches I can run with ADB. If you are interested, Stefan, I can open a topic for this comparison. It will take less of your time if you only need to run Tropical searches.

Below are the links to my posts that used computer generated data for the results. I have posted the exact degree of the Sun, so it's possible to do a mental adjustment to place the Sun in the following tropical sign. (Except for the tropical/sidereal overlaps which happen in the early degrees of sidereal signs.) The star-based nakshatras are the same in the tropical zodiac for the Sun's location as the stars don't move between one zodiac and the other.

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7562
Aries through Cancer

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7683
Leo through Scorpio

I stopped posting on this nakshatra series because there seemed to be little interest here on Skyscript. But I think it's important to complete the zodiac posts through Pisces, so I'm going to table other projects and finish this series of posts.

Therese

That's impressing searches Therese. I will read through your material again.

But first I will conclude my little minisearch with 2200 charts. I think the results were quite fascinating actually. The sun is a karaka for career as is the ascendant (lagna) so some hints at areas of interest should be shown. It's fun to see which charts are popping up.
I did the last signs this morning and did have a few hits:
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Sagittarius Asc, sun and Moon sidereal search

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eva_Le_Gallienne

http://www.astrotheme.com/astrology/Eva_Le_Gallienne

"Le Gallienne was born in London to an English poet of French descent, Richard Le Gallienne, and a Danish journalist, Julie Norregard.[1] After Eva's parents separated when she was three years old, she spent her childhood shuttling back and forth between Paris and Britain. She made her stage debut at the age of 15 in a 1914 production of Maurice Maeterlinck's Monna Vanna. The next year Le Gallienne sailed for New York, and then on to Arizona and California where she performed in several theatre productions. After travelling in Europe for a period of time, she returned to New York and became a Broadway .
Le Gallienne never hid her lesbianism inside the acting community, but reportedly was never comfortable with her sexuality."

So there is travels and immigration and frankness with beliefs.


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Capricorn asc sun and Moon search


Writer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joris-Karl_Huysmans

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Huy ... Joris-Karl

"His work expressed his deep pessimism, which had led him to the philosophy of Arthur Schopenhauer"

"For 32 years, Huysmans worked as a civil servant for the French Ministry of the Interior, a job he found tedious"


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Aquarius No hits.

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Pisces asc, sun and Moon search

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algernon_ ... _Swinburne

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Swinburne,_Algernon

Poet.
Died of alcoholic dysentery.

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Compare with chart of Charles Baudelaire (not in this search) who had 7 planets + node in
siderial pisces. may be fitting with what Cochrane means with "extreme sampling"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Baudelaire

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Baudelaire,_Charles

Poet.

"You have to be always drunk. That?s all there is to it?it?s the only way. So as not to feel the horrible burden of time that breaks your back and bends you to the earth, you have to be continually drunk.
But on what? Wine, poetry or virtue, as you wish. But be drunk."
Charles Baudelaire



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So the search started with an Aries Military general and ended with a Pisces Poet. In the between a Gemini computer man, two Leo politicians, one of them american president Lyndon B Johnsson et.c.

Thank you for these searches, Stefan. I hope there's more to Pisces than poetry and alcohol! We still have the problem, however, of these searches basically bringing singleton results. So a search needs to be of a type that will draw a large enough number of charts so that (hopefully) we might begin to see patterns.

I've tried many searches with ADB, and one that seems to bring helpful results is to ask for a stellium of personal planets in a sign. This is similar to Charles Baudelaire's stellium that you mentioned. So I would suggest for extreme sampling to begin with a stellium of personal planets plus the domicile lord for each sign. This would prevent the dispositor from shifting the energy to another part of the chart.

But I would eliminate the Moon from the stellium as the Moon can bring in too many other factors. It might also be helpful to include the planet that is exalted in a sign since the (sidereal) sign does often seem to reflect the exalted planet's traits.

I think also we may have nakshatra traits mixing with sign traits which means that signs express different energies in different degree areas. As astrologers we know that trying to pin anything down with limited parameters can be difficult or impossible. But forums are places for experimentation, so we can try different approaches.

In past stellium searches I eliminated the Ascendant (influenced by too many other factors with the ascendant lord being especially important) and Moon. In my nakshatra searches I did include the Ascendant with the Sun because the degree areas were limited, and the nakshatra is supposed to influence the ascendant. So that is rather like working with 27 signs rather than twelve. But the nakshatra areas are still too broad in my opinion since each navamsa (four to each nakshatra) is supposed to have a unique expression.

In this discussion we are departing from "tropical Vedic" astrology, so where would an "Extreme Sampling" topic be placed on Skyscript? There has sometimes been a distinct anti-sidereal tone under some topics, so should an "Extreme Sampling" topic go on the sidereal forum? (I could begin with a Pisces stellium search to compare with your results, Stefan.)

Therese

Yes - that would be interesting Therese.
If you wan't to you can start a thread in the sidereal area of forum, where it may be in the right place. I would be interested in the result.
But maybe waiting to start thead until sidereal Moon gets out of scorpio where is is located with Saturn. A very bad Muhurta/electional time to start something imo.

S

Stefan wrote: If you want to you can start a thread in the sidereal area of forum, where it may be in the right place. I would be interested in the result.
But maybe waiting to start thead until sidereal Moon gets out of scorpio where is is located with Saturn. A very bad Muhurta/electional time to start something imo.

You are right, Stefan, and I'm not experienced in Muhurta. Do you have Muhurta experience? As "Madam Librarian" (I try to read any books related to a topic, and am fortunate that I can afford to buy them....), I've just ordered a book titled Muhurta Traditional and Modern (2006) by K. K. Joshi and K.N. Rao. The book probably takes a look at traditional Muhurta rules and how they might need to be modified for our contemporary times. I know that Rao has encouraged research among his students. (Lacking Muhurta experience, I'm not a good person to choose a Muhurta.)

As for the use of the Sidereal zodiac in India, it seems to be the consensus among scholars that the zodiac was purposely brought into alignment with the all-important nakshatras in Siddhantic times. So we can't re-interpret the findings of scholars, but we can legitimately question if this decision was correct for astrological purposes.

The use of the 12 sign zodiac for astrological purposes comes from the west--all the various techniques we use today--and we know that zodiac was sidereal as used by astrologers in the west for several hundred years. http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7423

So apparently India followed through with a sidereal zodiac for astrological use and aligned that zodiac with the 27 nakshatras. This process is described in Abhyankar's book. It's useless to argue which zodiac is "correct" for astrology. Instead we need to try to show evidence for our preferred zodiac. So we can make an effort in that direction with "Extreme Sampling."

Do you have Muhurta experience?

Yes I have taken classes for a teacher. But I am not an expert.

-Key elements is to keep the Moon unafflicted and as bright as possible.
-Keeping the karaka for the question in good shape.
-Choosing a good nakshatra and lunar day.
- Choosing a good Vara Day ruled by benefic. Monday ruled by Moon for example.
Fixing a good lagna. ( important)

In general tomorrow for example, the Moon is quite bright and waxing. In Sagittarius unafflicted. Karaka is Mercury i think. Mercury is Rx which is not optimal, but is in sidereal virgo which is excellent. Sun and Rahu also in Virgo make it a great time for research/investigation. Nakshatra is Mula.
This is not generally a nakshatra to choose, but is good for research, going to the "root" of things. Lunar day (tithi) is Ashtami, which is not optimal. But can be good for studies. Choosing a nice lagna with Mercury in good shape could be nice. Perhaps Sagittarius lagna, which have good yogas and strong lagna. With ME in 10H ( Bhadra yoga) + Jupiter in 9H aspecting lagna.


Ok. So..back to tropical vedic astrology!
Sorry for going off topic.

Stefan, taking your planetary and nakshatra suggestions, tomorrow afternoon in my location gives a chart with Mula rising, Mercury, Rahu and Sun in 10th, and Jupiter trine the Moon and ascendant. The only choice would be between a Mula and Purva Ashada ascendant if we want to keep the trine of Jupiter.

What about the Moon as 8th lord? Is that important for a Muhurta? From a western point of view, this brings in the Pluto-Uranus square in the heavens at the moment, which might be interesting a that square as seen as disruptive---if it would even have an influence. But of course Uranus and Pluto have nothing to do with classical Muhurta or traditional Jyotish.

The third pada of Mula sounds good. This gives Gemini rising in the navamsa and according to Prash Trivedi is good for communication, wordplay and relationships. It's supposed to operate mainly on the intellectual plane according to Trivedi. Of course he's taking the Mercury rulership of Gemini.

This isn't exactly off topic as we're looking for a good time to transfer the zodiac discussion to another area of the forum. Then anyone who wants to can transfer the time to the tropical zodiac for study.

Therese

Both Mula and P.Shada is a bit unfavourable in muhurta. But Mula is good for astrological Learning and research. Yes the navamsha you mention seems a good choice.
And getting a Close trine to Jupiter ?

Yes - Moon as 8L is there in asc, but setting muhurtas is a "nasty job". No
muhurta is ever perfect ! But with Sag rising I like the general house placements, and raja yogas + the strong Jupiter aspect on asc. into own sign et.c. The 5L of intelligence mars placed in 9H with Jupiter asc lord. The raja yoga with ME 10L with SU 9L in the 10th house.

But the most important thing may be to get the moon out of scorpio today
and the bad influence of Saturn and Mars on it.
So make it when you are able to. Not so big deal, it's just a thread in a forum anyway but a bit fun to setting a muhurta for it.

S

Yes, Mula isn't the best, but it can be good for astrological learning and research, as you said, Stefan. The best time I have gives these positions:

Asc 9 Sag (Gemini navamsa)
Moon 11 Sag (Cancer navamsa)
Jupiter 15 Leo (Leo navamsa)

So Moon is in a good navamsa, and Jupiter is vargottama. It's only a forum thread, yes, but let's see if there is some interesting discussion! The only problem is I have to be away tomorrow for several hours, but I'll try to arrange to be home in the afternoon.

Therese Hamilton wrote:

An email correspondent recommended Abhyankar's book earlier this year. I purchased it through Amazon from Exotic India for USD $27 in July.

I just thought I would update that Amazon.ca were ultimately unable to provide this book through their supplier as promised. Amazon.com and Amazon Europe are also not providing the book at present.

However, I contacted Exotic India direct and obtained a copy. For anyone interested they still seem to have copies of the book.

Mark

Since I opened this thread 4 years ago the subject of tropical Vedic astrology seems to have gathered more prominence in the astrological community. Not without controversy and heated opposition from several quarters it must be conceded!

Reflecting that I thought I should update members that Chris Brennan has just conducted an interview this month with the astrologer Vic DiCara entitled ''The Tropical Zodiac in Indian Astrology''

Here is the link to a recording of the full interview with Vic DiCara:

http://theastrologypodcast.com/2017/07/ ... ic-dicara/

There are many useful links provided by Chris Brennan. In particular a critical response to tropical Vedic astrology by Andrew Foss of the British Association for Vedic Astrology BAVA.

http://www.vedicsoftware.com/zodiacs1.php

An introductory link giving Vic DiCara's argument for supporting tropical Vedic astrology.
http://vicdicara.com/tropical

And a You Tube response by Vic DiCara to the arguments presented by Andrew Foss in his video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuyNmpqwW4M&t=1s

Mark

Thanks for the links, Mark.

I haven't the patience for videos, but I had a look at the DiCara website and read what he describes as 'the key texts'. There is (of course) nothing there that Indian astrologers haven't been aware of all along, and it doesn't change a thing; the only perspective from which any of this is a new discovery is that of the author's personal history. Once again it brings Pope's lines to my mind (... And drinking largely sobers us again). It is rather like those little sects springing up around a handful of isolated and over-interpreted scriptural passages.

A note of warning: DiCara claims to know Sanskrit and to read the texts in the original, but his translations are incorrect, sometimes a great deal so. I hope this is due to ignorance rather than a wish to deceive, but the result is the same. To give just one example, he translates m?ndya-?aighrya-sam?n?bhir gatibhir as 'in a cardinal, fixed, and dual manner'. What the phrase really means is 'by slow, fast and middling motions'.