yuzuru wrote:Hi, RC

Ah, if any of the members are really sure that McCain is going to win, it is a good time to bet your money ! In oddschecker.com the odss were close to 7 dollars to every dollar invested ! Apparently the bookmakers are backing Obama

LOL!

That would really test one's convictions. I think I'll pass. This is the first horary I've tried to use for an election.



But how do you interpret that 00 fixed moon opposing the fixed MC? The electorate is opposing existing gvt.? But if moon is fixed... ???


RC

RC wrote:
But how do you interpret that 00 fixed moon opposing the fixed MC? The electorate is opposing existing gvt.? But if moon is fixed... ???


RC

RC:
The Moon is on Obama's 10th house cusp. Moon is going into 10th = Obama going into Presidency. I thought the Moon might be the timing til Obama is elected President, but fixed angle and sign shows years and that can't be right. The closeness may just show the strength of prediction?

kali wrote:

RC wrote:
But how do you interpret that 00 fixed moon opposing the fixed MC? The electorate is opposing existing gvt.? But if moon is fixed... ???


RC

RC:
The Moon is on Obama's 10th house cusp. Moon is going into 10th = Obama going into Presidency. I thought the Moon might be the timing til Obama is elected President, but fixed angle and sign shows years and that can't be right. The closeness may just show the strength of prediction?

Hi Kali:
This goes back to my question re: Frawley's methods. He doesn't say anything about turning the chart. I haven't read his entire book but my impression is that in an election question such as mine, you use the 7th for Obama but you look at the radical 10th for both 1st ruling candidate, McCain and 7th ruler (BO). When I first read this chart, I used the derived houses for him.

I'm not sure if he states this. Anyone know?

RC

I do believe he wouldn?t reverse the charts in this case...


for example, "my daughter?s university" isn?t 9th from the 5th to him, is just radical 9th.

RC: I'm not sure why Doris Chase Doane's book 'Contest Charts' where she recommends each person having their own 10th is not a factor but here is Lilly...

Of Battles, Warre, and other Contentions.

If one demand, whether he shall overcome his Adversary or not; give to the Querent the Lord of the ascendant the Moon, and the Planet from whom she is separated; and unto the Defendant the 7th and his Lord, and the Planet to whom the Moon applyeth; and behold whose Significator is in Angles and gest and with better Planets, and so judge.

If evill Planets be in the Ascendant, and Fortunes in the 7th, the Adversary shall overcome, & e contra.. The Lord of the 7th in the Ascendant, betokens victory to the Querent, & e contra.

kali wrote: here is Lilly...

Of Battles, Warre, and other Contentions.

If one demand, whether he shall overcome his Adversary or not; give to the Querent the Lord of the ascendant the Moon, and the Planet from whom she is separated; and unto the Defendant the 7th and his Lord, and the Planet to whom the Moon applyeth; and behold whose Significator is in Angles and gest and with better Planets, and so judge.

If evill Planets be in the Ascendant, and Fortunes in the 7th, the Adversary shall overcome, & e contra.. The Lord of the 7th in the Ascendant, betokens victory to the Querent, & e contra.

Hey Kali:

No planets in the ASC or 7th but:

Moon separates from a sextile to Mercury which just passed over 1st ruler, Venus. Moon then opposes MC and then sextiles Mars. This would all seem to favor BO.

Uranus' soltice point (10th ruler) is conjunct BO's Mars. Moon's Soltice Point is at 29 Taurus (Pleides) in the first house squaring the MC from McCain's house.

Seems on further study, the chart favors BO more. Unfavorable for BO: Mars in detriment, about to enter his own 12th. McCain's favor: He's about to enter dignity in Libra.

I'm still not sure how we should judge moon at 0 Leo though or fact that MC is fixed.

RC

RC:
Frawley said you have to be careful when the Moon is going into the 4th house it could literally mean the guy lost and is going home!

Kali, there may be some misunderstanding upon which chart I was analizing. It is Kali's question in 2007 found on page 5 on post # 95, of a republican continuance of the Presidentcy in 2008.

Kali said:

"Another thought, my understanding is the Moon can't be co-ruler of Repub. and Sig of Democrats 10th house cusp also. So, if Moon signfi Repub. the ruler of Dems 10th would become the Sun. (Leo in Dems 10th)"

Kali, to my understanding even if you are a Republican and the Asc. describes you as well as the favorite of yours and the Demos are the 7th, the Moon is only the Querant, Not the Repulicans also.

The Moon is on the side of the chart of the Demos and does rule Obama's tenth(4th as derived from this horary chart).

This indeed is going to be a difficult one with your horary, RC's, and mine on McCain to judge: as we aren't getting clear, cut and dried answers on these.

Venus applying to a trine would look promising for Republicans but that VOC Moon in Sag is a may act or Can, not definitely.

I'm questioning Saturn's past Moon aspect as change.

I think we need to read up on CA I and what Lilly says about the Tenth in from the table of contents as well as Trials and wars.

Clinton Soule[/quote]

kali wrote:RC: I'm not sure why Doris Chase Doane's book 'Contest Charts' where she recommends each person having their own 10th is not a factor

Found the answer to my question. From Frawley on houses, he says "turning implies some kind of 'belonging to'. If the object does not, in a real sense, belong to the person, avoid turning the chart. The bigger the thing, the more likely we are to look to the radical, not the turned, chart."

kali wrote:RC:
Frawley said you have to be careful when the Moon is going into the 4th house it could literally mean the guy lost and is going home!

Oh yes! I remember reading that. LOL

So you think maybe BO is going back to Chicago?

I just heard today that he said if he doesn't win, he'll be back to try again in 2012. I'm surprised to hear him even entertain that thought. Michelle said way back before the primaries that America would only get one chance at an Obama presidency and that if they lost they would never run again. So this is a 180 turn to say this. Guess we shouldn't be surprised though. They did a 180 on campaign financing too and half dozen other positions.

RC

kali wrote:

kali wrote:RC: I'm not sure why Doris Chase Doane's book 'Contest Charts' where she recommends each person having their own 10th is not a factor

Found the answer to my question. From Frawley on houses, he says "turning implies some kind of 'belonging to'. If the object does not, in a real sense, belong to the person, avoid turning the chart. The bigger the thing, the more likely we are to look to the radical, not the turned, chart."

Thanks for clarifying that Kali!

I've got to finish that book sometime!

RC

This horary has become very personal to me because it been like watching a story unfold.

Moon sextile Mercury, March 12, 2007 my friend and I were talking politics and decided to ask if the Repubs would win in 2008. With Mars 7th house ruler in 10th in accidental dignity and Venus 1st house ruler in 12th, also in accidental dignity, and Moon conj. Pluto, I called it a Democrat win. This was when all the players were aboard.

Then it came down to Hillary and Barack. Looking at this chart I called Barack as Mars in Aquarius reminded me of him more than Hillary. Obama took the nomination.

But hoping dearly to pull a Republican win out of the chart, I looked further. Capricorn on 10th, ruler Saturn is also ruler and in triplicity with Mars in Aquarius. This reception and a trine from Jupiter in Sag. abates much mischief that Saturn could do. Obama supporters have to admit he's gotten a pass on issues that would badly hurt another candidate.

With Saturn in 4th and Moon ruler of 4th conj Pluto (exposing what has been developed undercover) and moving into 9th we have the mortgage crisis that has not only effected the US but countries all over the world. With Moon moving into it's detriment, there is much doom and gloom.

Jupiter in Sag in 8th trining Saturn I beleive shows the bailout and in recent news can describe the huge, unprecidented financial support Obama has received. Also it was a boost for Obama in the polls as McCain was gaining significant ground.

A strong aspect that may prove troublesome for Obama is his Mars square Asc./Desc. (Suffer a professional loss) Mars in 10th just shows his desire for the job and Mar's aspect to Saturn is wide. That t-square may be telling the story.

With Repub. ruler Venus in cadent 12th is in accedental dignity here. Venus rules 6th showing a military service. Venus is in fall with Saturn ruler of 10th and in detriment in Aries. I can't see a win for McCain except that the 10th house keeps Saturn as it's ruler even though it changes signs (Capricorn to Aquarius)

It's been fun and can't wait til Nov. 4